Secrets of shooting RAW on iPhone 7 & 7 Plus!
Photo Moment - November 29, 2016
You know you can shoot RAW on a new iPhone with iOS10, but do you know what apps you can use? How to shoot RAW in one app, but not in another? What the limitations are of shooting with Adobe Lightroom Mobile, vs apps like RAW by 500px or Manual? In this video, learn how to get the most from your RAW photography on the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus!
Apps used and discussed in this video:
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Mobile: http://jal.bz/2gupUJw
RAW by 500px: http://jal.bz/2fJ54F3
Manual (RAW camera): http://jal.bz/2fO5cGd
Hi and thanks for the video. I am the last of the iPhone 7s. What would you recommend 5 years later. Other than Lightroom.
Why I didn’t see this video before... damn it .
Thanks for the video it covers everything which I needed. Subscribed
Thanks for the video it covers everything which I needed. Subscribed
Can you try the app called Camera+? That app can also capture RAW images & its got a built in RAW editor as well!
Yep it’s cool! I haven’t done a video on it thought.
Most fucked up tutorial I ever watched
+fazloon mohamed You're welcome. And thanks for the constructive criticism.
Great video, but you should be more succinct. You interrupt yourself constantly with side thoughts and things and you go in circles around your point before finally making your point. Too verbose.
pro cam 4 does everything you need for a raw image. even email the raw image to yourself
Hey everyone, it actually is possible to export the original .DNG file with Lightroom Mobile. I guess this was changed in a recent update? I dunno. If you open your image and tap on the three dots in the upper right, one of the options is "export original." This will export the RAW (.DNG) file to your camera roll on your iPhone.
Could someone tell me why when I shoot in RAW, the image itself is definitely below the resolution of the iPhone's capability?
I’ll address your question LIVE right here https://youtu.be/faOZ9hxyjME on PhotoJoseph‘s Photo Moment 2017-04-03
27:39 <<< its longgg man remake the video plz and make it 10min tops ty !
+Dan Levy sorry, ain't gonna happen. Live to tape; that's the show.
Great video! Would like to see more in the future!
+Paul B thanks! Best way to ensure that is to contribute to my patreon at Patreon.com/PhotoJoseph — every dollar helps
Good video and the small hiccups just highlight what we deal with as part of the process so all good :)
A couple of things I've noticed about shooting RAW:
• Noise. As in there is a lot of it! Obviously Apple's software noise reduction is applied when you shoot jpeg with the native camera. Generally these images do look good at iPhone screen size, on Instagram etc. but when you zoom in that noise reduction is awful - smeared highlights and dark areas, especially in low light but also noticeable in daylight images. That was one thing that seemed to be more noticeable from the iPhone 6 onwards. It really ruins shots if you want to enlarge them. Ideally, one of the benefits of being able to shoot RAW on the iPhone now, eliminates Apple's automatic noise reduction. As part of the editing process you can now choose what level of noise reduction you want. However it doesn't seem like you can actually do this effectively. Personally I prefer to use Snapped for editing RAW (my images taken with Manual or Pro Cam) but as far as I know it offers no noise reduction option. Pro Camera does offer luma and chroma noise reduction but it is impossible to see this really working when you can't zoom in when editing an image in Camera Pro (at least I can't)... What this means is that you end up with an image that can be edited much mote effectively with RAW editing tools but looks pretty horrible with all that noise in there, especially if the shot was taken in less than ideal light. Joseph - I can also see that noise in your edited example shot after you have done the adjustments. So the only option I could was to open up the edited image in Photoshop on a desktop and do your noise reduction there. But read further down and I mention another app that does offer noise reduction.
• Previewing: RAW/DNG files appear 'blurry' when viewed on the camera roll. This is only a preview thing but it is kind of annoying (on the other hand it is one way to ID a RAW shot in your camera roll lol). Many people who were using Manual Camera to try RAW were complaining how crappy the images looked and saying it didn't work. What they were looking at was the (blurry) preview of the image which cannot be displayed correctly until you open the image in an editor (what people are seeing is the 852 x 640 file so it looks 'low res').
I wonder ho this could be addressed - is it something that Apple need to do to enable better previewing of RAW/DNG files in the camera roll?
• Manual Camera: Checking the 'save RAW only' box seems to result in the app just taking and saving a regular jpeg. You need to select the 'RAW+jpeg' option to shoot RAW.
Also, there seems to be confusion on Manual Camera's part if it is actually saving images as TIFF files or DNG. Examining the shots taken on Manual in both Pro Camera and Metaphoto they are recognized as 'TIFF'. When you open a Manual Camera RAW shot in Snapseed the file name is .DNG and it is automatically opened in the RAW/DNG editing space.... I'm not quite sure what is going on there!
• Pro Camera: if you use Pro Camera'a lighbox function for images it will indicate if it is a RAW file or not with a 'RAW' label on the image (iIt also does the same thing for 'TIFF').
OK so OTHER apps - I picked up a new camera/editing app the other day on sale called ACDSee Pro and it is looking really good.
You can shoot RAW with it and it will save a full res DNG preview! No more blurry camera roll DNGs!
It also has some extensive editing tools for DNG including noise reduction (plus a bunch of usual camera app things like filters etc).
It will also display full image info in the lightbox when you select an image - ISO, format of the photo - RAW, TIF, JPEG etc plus it gives you an info button with the full info including resolution, file size, histogram, a map - all the EXIF data. Pretty cool.
Opening the image from ACDSee Pro in Metaphoto - the file is ID'd as a RAW image at 4032 x 3025 (not 852 x 640) so you are definitely getting the full-res preview.
I think it is still on sale (free?) as part of Black Friday. There is also a 'camera only' version called 'ACDSee Camera Pro' that doesn't seem to offer editing (you get sent to ACDSee Pro to edit).
ACDSee Pro will allow you to shoot AND edit so there is no point in just getting the camera version it seems. Confused ye? Another camera app called 'Camera Pro'? XD
The only minus I have found so far is that it struggles on some menu function (speed wise) loading camera libraries initially but given my photo library is currently just shy of 100,000 I'll forgive it lol
Overall, I've found that if you want a good, clean and vibrant shot without any hassle then just shoot jpeg with the standard Apple camera app in HDR mode. Snapseed's 'Tune Image' editing tools are really great and allow you to pull in a lot of shadow and highlight details form the jpeg, much in the same was as you do with a DNG but without having to overcome the noise of the DNG.
Sure you get Apple's automatic noise reduction but in general the images seem to look better.
I really want this RAW thing to work and one of the main reasons I got the 7 Plus was to take advantage of RAW combined with the optics of the new camera to get the best result possible. I print and enlarge my images so have a DNG file to work with instead of a jpeg seems a better idea.
I'm still experimenting with the process so I haven't written it off yet - the more we share experiences and techniques the better :)
I'm going to try shooting RAW and editing those with ACDSee Pro and see what happens.
• Things I'd like to see:
1). Native Apple camera support for shooting RAW. Similar to how you can choose live photos, HDR etc.
2). Camera roll support to show RAW/DNG files. Again, in the same way you can see if a photo has been shot in HDR, Portrait Mode, Burst etc.
3). More noise reduction tools in iOS editing apps such as Snapseed. This is quite critical for those of of who submit work to mobile photography contests and so forth, where the images are checked to make sure they have not been edited on a desktop. If we have to edit off the iPhone - that defeats the purpose.
A couple of things I've noticed about shooting RAW:
• Noise. As in there is a lot of it! Obviously Apple's software noise reduction is applied when you shoot jpeg with the native camera. Generally these images do look good at iPhone screen size, on Instagram etc. but when you zoom in that noise reduction is awful - smeared highlights and dark areas, especially in low light but also noticeable in daylight images. That was one thing that seemed to be more noticeable from the iPhone 6 onwards. It really ruins shots if you want to enlarge them. Ideally, one of the benefits of being able to shoot RAW on the iPhone now, eliminates Apple's automatic noise reduction. As part of the editing process you can now choose what level of noise reduction you want. However it doesn't seem like you can actually do this effectively. Personally I prefer to use Snapped for editing RAW (my images taken with Manual or Pro Cam) but as far as I know it offers no noise reduction option. Pro Camera does offer luma and chroma noise reduction but it is impossible to see this really working when you can't zoom in when editing an image in Camera Pro (at least I can't)... What this means is that you end up with an image that can be edited much mote effectively with RAW editing tools but looks pretty horrible with all that noise in there, especially if the shot was taken in less than ideal light. Joseph - I can also see that noise in your edited example shot after you have done the adjustments. So the only option I could was to open up the edited image in Photoshop on a desktop and do your noise reduction there. But read further down and I mention another app that does offer noise reduction.
• Previewing: RAW/DNG files appear 'blurry' when viewed on the camera roll. This is only a preview thing but it is kind of annoying (on the other hand it is one way to ID a RAW shot in your camera roll lol). Many people who were using Manual Camera to try RAW were complaining how crappy the images looked and saying it didn't work. What they were looking at was the (blurry) preview of the image which cannot be displayed correctly until you open the image in an editor (what people are seeing is the 852 x 640 file so it looks 'low res').
I wonder ho this could be addressed - is it something that Apple need to do to enable better previewing of RAW/DNG files in the camera roll?
• Manual Camera: Checking the 'save RAW only' box seems to result in the app just taking and saving a regular jpeg. You need to select the 'RAW+jpeg' option to shoot RAW.
Also, there seems to be confusion on Manual Camera's part if it is actually saving images as TIFF files or DNG. Examining the shots taken on Manual in both Pro Camera and Metaphoto they are recognized as 'TIFF'. When you open a Manual Camera RAW shot in Snapseed the file name is .DNG and it is automatically opened in the RAW/DNG editing space.... I'm not quite sure what is going on there!
• Pro Camera: if you use Pro Camera'a lighbox function for images it will indicate if it is a RAW file or not with a 'RAW' label on the image (iIt also does the same thing for 'TIFF').
OK so OTHER apps - I picked up a new camera/editing app the other day on sale called ACDSee Pro and it is looking really good.
You can shoot RAW with it and it will save a full res DNG preview! No more blurry camera roll DNGs!
It also has some extensive editing tools for DNG including noise reduction (plus a bunch of usual camera app things like filters etc).
It will also display full image info in the lightbox when you select an image - ISO, format of the photo - RAW, TIF, JPEG etc plus it gives you an info button with the full info including resolution, file size, histogram, a map - all the EXIF data. Pretty cool.
Opening the image from ACDSee Pro in Metaphoto - the file is ID'd as a RAW image at 4032 x 3025 (not 852 x 640) so you are definitely getting the full-res preview.
I think it is still on sale (free?) as part of Black Friday. There is also a 'camera only' version called 'ACDSee Camera Pro' that doesn't seem to offer editing (you get sent to ACDSee Pro to edit).
ACDSee Pro will allow you to shoot AND edit so there is no point in just getting the camera version it seems. Confused ye? Another camera app called 'Camera Pro'? XD
The only minus I have found so far is that it struggles on some menu function (speed wise) loading camera libraries initially but given my photo library is currently just shy of 100,000 I'll forgive it lol
Overall, I've found that if you want a good, clean and vibrant shot without any hassle then just shoot jpeg with the standard Apple camera app in HDR mode. Snapseed's 'Tune Image' editing tools are really great and allow you to pull in a lot of shadow and highlight details form the jpeg, much in the same was as you do with a DNG but without having to overcome the noise of the DNG.
Sure you get Apple's automatic noise reduction but in general the images seem to look better.
I really want this RAW thing to work and one of the main reasons I got the 7 Plus was to take advantage of RAW combined with the optics of the new camera to get the best result possible. I print and enlarge my images so have a DNG file to work with instead of a jpeg seems a better idea.
I'm still experimenting with the process so I haven't written it off yet - the more we share experiences and techniques the better :)
I'm going to try shooting RAW and editing those with ACDSee Pro and see what happens.
• Things I'd like to see:
1). Native Apple camera support for shooting RAW. Similar to how you can choose live photos, HDR etc.
2). Camera roll support to show RAW/DNG files. Again, in the same way you can see if a photo has been shot in HDR, Portrait Mode, Burst etc.
3). More noise reduction tools in iOS editing apps such as Snapseed. This is quite critical for those of of who submit work to mobile photography contests and so forth, where the images are checked to make sure they have not been edited on a desktop. If we have to edit off the iPhone - that defeats the purpose.
Thanks for the reply Joseph. All good info - let's see where this all goes :)
I'll be in touch re writing.
I'll be in touch re writing.
Whoah! Longest comment ever ;-) But you also win the award for Very Good Info™. OK to answer your questions/points…
NOISE — yes, you're 100% right. I actually hadn't noticed how noisy my sample image was until I was watching the recording later. I of course was looking at it on my iPhone screen where it still looked good, but even the local 1080p capture showed it quite badly, and when I opened it in Photos, yikes. So yeah… it's there and it's bad (in low light).
PREVIEW — yes that's what we finally determined was that we're looking at the low rez JPEG. I talked to the folks at 500px about it and they said they might be able to include a higher rez embedded JPEG but that it probably wasn't worth the effort. However since their JPEG and the Manual app embedded JPEG are identical in size, it's probably determined by the OS. And yeah, Apple would have to permit viewing/editing of the RAW file on an OS level. It'll probably happen next release, I'd guess.
MANUAL CAMERA RAW TIF vs DNG — I think it's the same thing. If you look at the file in Photos on macOS, it shows as DNG. Remember DNG isn't a format so much as a wrapper.
ACDSEE — I had no idea they had an iOS app! Sheesh… they were the first guests on my TWiP Apps podcast; you'd think they'd reach out to tell me these things. I just bought it… now I have two new RAW apps to play with.
http://thisweekinphoto.com/twip-apps-01-acdsee/
(btw that's the first episode we did… quality is a little shoddy… but there you go)
Hey Andrew you obviously know your stuff… want to write for me? I need more writers on http://PhotoApps.Expert. Reach out via the contact page there if interested.
NOISE — yes, you're 100% right. I actually hadn't noticed how noisy my sample image was until I was watching the recording later. I of course was looking at it on my iPhone screen where it still looked good, but even the local 1080p capture showed it quite badly, and when I opened it in Photos, yikes. So yeah… it's there and it's bad (in low light).
PREVIEW — yes that's what we finally determined was that we're looking at the low rez JPEG. I talked to the folks at 500px about it and they said they might be able to include a higher rez embedded JPEG but that it probably wasn't worth the effort. However since their JPEG and the Manual app embedded JPEG are identical in size, it's probably determined by the OS. And yeah, Apple would have to permit viewing/editing of the RAW file on an OS level. It'll probably happen next release, I'd guess.
MANUAL CAMERA RAW TIF vs DNG — I think it's the same thing. If you look at the file in Photos on macOS, it shows as DNG. Remember DNG isn't a format so much as a wrapper.
ACDSEE — I had no idea they had an iOS app! Sheesh… they were the first guests on my TWiP Apps podcast; you'd think they'd reach out to tell me these things. I just bought it… now I have two new RAW apps to play with.
http://thisweekinphoto.com/twip-apps-01-acdsee/
(btw that's the first episode we did… quality is a little shoddy… but there you go)
Hey Andrew you obviously know your stuff… want to write for me? I need more writers on http://PhotoApps.Expert. Reach out via the contact page there if interested.
did you tried Camera+? I think it shoots RAW and has a good image editor. Another good editor is Polarr, it's not as easy than snapseed but has a lot more controls
+runnerpsu That's great. I haven't looked at it in a while.
I have Camera+ on my 7Plus. In settings tap quality & format and slide the Save Raw Photo slider
+Frederico Cintra it's from Nomad and I love it. This is the one I have, and I put leather conditioner on it to keep it nice: https://www.hellonomad.com/products/italian-strap
+Frederico Cintra I have used Camera+ and just looked at it again. No obvious RAW support that I saw. I will have to look more closely. Polarr rocks; I did a podcast with them on my TWiP Apps show. Check out http://TWiPapps.com — I will have to check to see if it reads RAW files on iOS!
on a side note, which apple watch band are you using?
what about ProCam? Is it on par with the three apps you mentioned?
+Jamison Donoho I downloaded it yesterday but haven't launched it yet. Watch this space!
Jamison Donoho it's funny that you say this, I have the same "unsure" experience using ProCam. I also use Lightroom mobile afterwards, to tweak my .dng in terms of exposure, highlights etc. Still, not really sure about the integrity of the raw files that I am getting in comparison to raw Joseph shows in his videos.
comradik I've been using ProCam for a couple weeks now and I'm not actually sure if it shoots RAW? I've shot a decent amount with it, and I make sure I have the quality set to RAW when I do shoot, but I feel like when I review the images, they seem like they might be low quality.
I'm not familiar with that one… I'll check it out and add something to http://PhotoApps.Expert soon!
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