Anyone notice a color shift in Aperture/iPhoto when using a Nikon D4 RAW file?
I'm seeing the green channel drop out in some circumstances. And its happening in both the sRGB and Adobe color spaces.
My test setup: medium closeup of a red dress, Nikon D4 set to RAW + JPEG fine. The JPEG result visually matches the view I'm getting from the RAW file as rendered by Nikon's ViewNX 2 software. The color is noticeably different when viewing the same RAW file in either Aperture 3.2.3 or iPhoto '11 (9.2.3) on my Lion iMac machine.
To quantify this color shift, I took both the Aperture rendered RAW file (exported as JPEG) and camera generated JPEG files into Photoshop, set the eyedropper to a sample size of 101x101 and took a sample at the same spot within each image. The JPEG RGB was 223/69/66 while the RAW file was 245/0/44.
My next test was to use the same setup except using a Nikon D90. This time, no problem. The camera generated JPEG visually matches the RAW file when interpreted by Nikon's ViewNX 2 and Aperture and iPhoto.
As a result, I'm thinking something is wrong with Apple's render of the D4 RAW file.
If you're interested in sample images, check out this 36M zip file which contains the RAW + JPEG from the D4 and D90. Also included is a screen shot which illustrates the difference between the JPEG file on the left to the D4 RAW file rendered by Aperture.
files.me.com/dpweber/uzw7b4
I don’t really think this is strictly “Color Management” problem. Color Management, no matter how well conceived, can only render color data as it is presented. When translated by a third party it is at the mercy of the third party’s interpretation.
The difference you are seeing here is in the color engine used in the various RAW converters you used in your test. The colors should match identically between the camera generated jpeg and the Nikon software because the color engines used in-camera for the jpeg and the one Nikon View uses for the RAW conversion are one in the same … so the RAW conversion should be identical to the in-camera jpeg …
However, for all third party RAW converters, they have to build their own color engine to translate the color information as the camera maker’s engine is from proprietary software which they do not share with other developers. Thus, those of us who wish to use third party options are at the mercy of the developer’s interpretation of the color data captured in a RAW file and you can’t really get an exact match in many cases. Also keep in mind that third party software can’t recognize or act upon any in-camera image enhancement settings. These too are proprietary points, which can’t be used by third party developers.
Some third party included camera profiles are closer than others to that which is generated by the camera maker’s software and in-camera firmware … others are off the mark, some by quite a bit. This will also vary from camera to camera and brand to brand … and also vary depending upon how many individual eyes evaluate the effort along the way in the coding process.
This is where a custom camera profile could go a long way and bringing these factors in line … ala the user selectable Camera Calibration profile capability that is used in Lightroom and Adobe Camera RAW … while many of the canned profiles may come close … the ability to create your own can be a very closely matched compromise when using third party options like Aperture.
Hopefully, Apple will soon offer this capability for Aperture.
I did open up a case with Apple. Since the problem exists in both Aperture and iPhoto I suspect its a bug in the Apple Camera Raw. Have another call scheduled in 6 days. Butch, your comment about “custom camera profile could go a long way …” is so true, especially the “could” part. I used x-rite’s Passport product within LR and found it to be more accurate than the LR default - most of the time. Sometimes, however, even that tool failed me and tended (ironically) to inject too much green into the image.
I was a lot happier with these tools when I was totally ignorant.
Doug … the biggest problem with color renditions is individual perception … even when we can totally color manage from capture to print, in the most precise manner by the numbers, quite often the results may not be the most pleasing to the eye of the beholder.
Which is why I sought other options than the Nikon software … I absolutely hated the skin tones it rendered … they always leaned to a ghastly reddish tone that I think is unpleasant for the average person … So I am quite content when my third party software doesn’t exactly match the camera maker’s idea of what my images should look like. I’m not trying to say, my views are correct and Nikon is wrong … I just happen to have a different preference …
Color perception, as in any opinion, will be quite diverse on what is “perfect” … I just strive in most cases to worry about pleasing color … and delve into more depth for those few clients I have that need more exact rendition, mostly for products and clothing … Even with specific custom profiles created at the shoot, it can still involve some tweaking to satisfy all concerned in post after the shot is captured.
Butch, you’re right - Apple could easily come back and say: Hey, that’s the way we’re interpreting the bits. BTW, I couldn’t possibly ask for a more professional, interested and committed group. Apple support absolutely blows away any other technical support group I’ve come across.
As I dive deeper into this I’m finding a few interesting tidbits. First, in my sample photo, the color shift is only occuring within the red dress. I verified this by doing an export from View NX2 to a tiff 16-bit file and doing the same from Aperture via Export Version. Loaded them into Photoshop and changed the layer blending to Difference. Skin tones, background, etc all appear black - only the dress stands out, in green of course, due to the drop in the green channel.
The second anomoly I noticed is that Aperture’s metadata display is showing the Profile Name as Adobe RGB (1998) even when the image is captured when the camera is set to sRGB.
The third oddity is that Aperture exports using the sRGB space regardless of how the Preferences … Export … External Editor Color Space is set.
Am I overlooking something obvious?
Keep in mind, RAW files do not actually have an embedded color profile … the in-camera setting for a color profile is only recognized by the proprietary software … and Photoshop if you load a jpeg … third party software RAW developers ignore this tag and either use the default, or the choice you make in preferences … which I think is Adobe RGB in Aperture … and a derivative of ProPhoto RGB in Lightroom/ACR but will export to Ps any RGB profile you direct it to use when opening an image in Ps …
You are not alone. Though Ive only tested this with tif files imported to AP3. Check out the color patch checker thread posted early this month. Please contact apple, aperturefeedback@group.apple.com, with your info. We have to be the squeaky wheel to get this fixed. Seem that they are not using a non linear Prophoto working space to import images. Hopefully AP4
David
davidbmoore@mac.com
Twitter= @davidbmoore
Scottsdale AZ
Sorry my post may have left out the fact that this problem may not be related to your D4. I think its an overall Color Management problem. Hoping to be solved with AP4 someday.
Once the CM is fixed then you should be able to make a better study of whose D4 Codex works better for your needs.
davidbmoore@mac.com
Twitter= @davidbmoore
Scottsdale AZ
I started having this issue long before the D4 and D800 came out. The green shift only happens when I activate the White Balance brick by checking it’s box or starting to adjust the temp. I’ve chatted with Apple and they have shared my screen and watched it happen.
Not sure if it is related to this issue, but I’ve noticed that Aperture does not properly read the color temp from the NEF file. I noticed it on ceremony shots where I had K set on the camera to 2500, but once the files were in Aperture they were reading something like 2725 as I recall.
The ‘not reading WB properly’ may be because Nikon encrypts it and Apple has to reverse engineer.
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For awhile now, I have noticed that setting the color temp to k=5560 gives me a RAW color on Aperture of about 6100 which I have to re-set. This only happens with D4, as with D3s it actually reduces it slightly from a color k=5560 to about 5400! It also always says that the color space is Adobe even though it is not set this way, and for color temp it says auto even though it is set to a specific color. I wish that Apple would fix this bug.