I for one am very upbeat about forthcoming Photos App. There are screen shots with sliders that resemble Aperture. If Apple really was trying to tell photographers to kiss off they wouldn’t be embedding raw file handling and lens correction into the OS. Name 1 operating system that embeds the raw file handling and lens correction into the OS itself.
I don’t think Tim Cook is a stupid man and I think there’s a reason Apple keeps buying back their stock. Apple has never been a boastful company, and in the past, always kept estimates super conservative, until the quarterly reports came out and turned out the numbers were considerably lower than reality. I think we are looking at something similar with photography on the Mac, I think Apple is giving us some info, but in reality there’s an explosion to be experienced.
What I would like to see, is analysis on Photokit. What is this? I know it’s a new API but what are the implications and ramifications on future apps? From WWDC I learned that Apple is rolling out an API that will allow apps to run inside of apps on mobile devices but what exactly will Photokit allow developers to do that will help us edit our pictures better?
From all indications, Apple has been working their absolute tails off. Apps are getting more and more powerful than ever. With their power of interoperability I think even Apple may not know their full potential which could be one reason why they aren’t saying much.
We know that all future apps on OSX will be able to access photos from the exact same place, that being the “Photos” folder. And all apps will obviously have access to the raw file info, lens correction and likely other info as well. Will those apps also have access to edits done by other apps seamlessly?
The potential power of photo manipulation that Yosemite offers could be significantly greater than any solution current offered on the market. We will have to wait and see.
For me personally, I enjoy using lesser editing programs like Pixelmator and Camerabag 2. For these programs to not only have access to raw image manipulation and lens correction, but be a part of a larger, interoperable editing ecosystem is incredible.
What is needed for any transition, be it to a new photo system under MacOS/iOS and/or LR:
1) Library structure. iPhoto and Aperture already share this except for the managed/referenced distinction. I think LR users with referenced files will have to move to LR or other. Stacks. If the new photo app could add anything from Aperture it should be stacks. Filters and Rules in Aperture are exactly why I switched from iPhoto and why LR is not so good for me. These are the heart and should of Aperture and where any feedback we can give Apple should go.
2) Metadata. This should be easy as there are existing industry and ISO and IPTC standards. iPhoto clearly lacks here so an upgrade the the photos app in MacOS future is necessary. It’s also dead easy.
3) Sharing. This should ale be relatively straightforward for those sticking with the Apple solution. In fact, it will likely get better. I really, really hope Apple keeps their hard copy publishing options. They are excellent and well managed IMO. Very pleased there even if it is a small effort in photo sharing overall.
4) Presets and imports. This is likely to rely increasingly on the new RAW import engine. I suspect one of the key reasons why Apple has dropped the pro app for photos has to do with the haphazard way different companies implement their RAW. Adobe has these customers as their bread and butter, but it is a tiny market in reality. So anything like presets and lens profiles will probably be prepped out to plug-ins.
5) Plug-ins. Maybe the new photo app can replicate Silver Efex and so on (I love that sub-app). Have to see. I suspect the relevant and current plug-in crowd will allow a simple migration, but it remains to be seen if like-for-like w/non-destruct will also transfer. Might be a real headache.
6) Adjustments. This is the BIG one for most people here who avoid Photoshop unless they absolutely have to. iPhoto is 75% there, but the layout is…kludgy comparatively. Hopefully Jony Ives and company can figure out the better way and improve things.
To some extent people have to understand that some of what made Aperture special has already migrated to other apps. iPhoto (which will be replaced by the new Photos app as iLife is now bye-bye) already has a lot of what Aperture does, just in a less sophisticated, power user arrangement.
Light Table and Web Journals from Aperture made an appearance in iOS Photo Journals. Faces and Places are not only cross-app, but the new Nikon D810 actually has face recognition in it and many pr users are finding FD to be very handy (and accurate). So some stuff is being done in-camera and no longer needs a dedicated desktop implementation. Like focus points.
Both iPhoto and Aperture are terrible at handling video which has become an issue unto itself with cloud services. We’ll have to se how Apple handles that now that iLife (and presumably iMovie) are goners.
I am relieved that a giant like Apple appears to be wiping the slate clean and starting from scratch. I hope they have the foresight to keep the good stuff, like the clean Aperture layout. iPhoto is a kludge and Aperture is very intuitive so I am actually more relieved to hear that iPhoto is also going. Just look at how Aperture and iPhoto and iPhoto for iOS handle straighten. Aperture is the genesis for doing it right and the current iPhoto is the backward dog in the mix.
To some extent people have to understand that some of what made Aperture special has already migrated to other apps. iPhoto (which will be replaced by the new Photos app as iLife is now bye-bye) already has a lot of what Aperture does, just in a less sophisticated, power user arrangement.
Light Table and Web Journals from Aperture made an appearance in iOS Photo Journals. Faces and Places are not only cross-app, but the new Nikon D810 actually has face recognition in it and many pr users are finding FD to be very handy (and accurate). So some stuff is being done in-camera and no longer needs a dedicated desktop implementation. Like focus points.
Both iPhoto and Aperture are terrible at handling video which has become an issue unto itself with cloud services. We’ll have to se how Apple handles that now that iLife (and presumably iMovie) are goners.
I am relieved that a giant like Apple appears to be wiping the slate clean and starting from scratch. I hope they have the foresight to keep the good stuff, like the clean Aperture layout. iPhoto is a kludge and Aperture is very intuitive so I am actually more relieved to hear that iPhoto is also going (just look at how Aperture
I sort of figured this was going to take place. That is why over the years I have setup Lightroom and now glade I did. Also since nearly four months after the release of the Sony A6000 and still no Raw Camera feature persuaded me to move on to Lightroom just about full time now. Now I see no need at all to do any work with Aperture.
“So, here’s what I think. First, in order to incorporate iCloud, OS X, and iOS, Apple had to build from the bottom up. The evolution might follow what we’ve n seen with Final Cut X - solid, but basic feature set initially that grows in complexity over time. My first option will be to migrate to Photos. If I don’t like it, I hop over to Lightroom. In the meantime, I’m sitting pat.”
Derrick seems to have a sane approach. Aperture did not suddenly implode, and it works as well (or poorly, if you wish) as it did a month ago. I’m eager for some new feature love from Apple, and Photos may offer it. Or Photos may offer the updated architecture so that 3rd parties can jump in. In any case, I will wait and see.
On the other hand, this is clearly an opportunity for all the Adobe/Lightroom/Photoshop gurus to make some money by encouraging iPhoto and Aperture users to migrate. They can exploit all the FUD to encourage people to come buy their books and training.
If this is what the new Photos app for MacOS will look like at its basic level, then it is more Aperture than iPhoto.
Compare that to the current iPhoto and what we are going to see from the Mac experience vis-a-vis the iOS experience is a professionalization lite of all Apple first party apps. The photo below looks pro compared to iLife anything.
I really think this is one of those glass half full, half empty moments… On it’s face this looks promising to me. It’s hard to know how much the final interface will resemble this render - but I’m thinking positively here. Now show me a way to brush in adjustments and watch me smile…
And if this IS what Photos will look like, then having as much screen Real Estate for your image is a good thing. Aperture or LR without going full screen and hiding everything on the Top, side;s and bottom, haven’t got a Image in the work screen like this Photo representation has.
1 tick in the Pro’s box already !!!
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Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunnelling through a mountain with your forehead.
"Can't innovate any more, my ass" Phil Schiller
What will be most helpful in an Aperture => Lightroom migration is if Apple exposes Adobe to their library organization data and Adobe translates that directly into Collection Groups and Collections. Pulling in the metadata should be a no-brainer. Unraveling the links to the master files and choosing a new folder structure for the physical disk org should not be too difficult.
Adjustments will likely be lost unless Apple and Adobe get really cozy and come up with some amazing conversion tool that at least does a best-effort translation between Apple and Adobe Lightroom settings. Unfortunately, adjustments are what take the majority of one’s time in processing, especially if you have masks for brushed in / brushed out effects.
What am I really going to miss most? Slideshows and Books. Aperture spanks Lightroom hands down in these two incredibly valuable areas. I’m very anxious to see whether Apple provides these features in the new Photos app. It would be nice if Photos inherited Books, Slideshows, Calendars, Cards, etc from both Aperture and iPhoto. Of course, with PhotoKit any third party should be able to reach down into our libraries and provide some amazing options for us.
I’ve been in Aperture since version 1, and a certified trainer since the very beginning. It pains me to loose Aperture, since to this day I feel it provides the best organizational tools and most definitely the best UI out there for photo apps. That being said, as much as I dislike the ‘modal’ approach from Lightroom, once you move past it, it has some very good features. Needless to say their develop module it’s quite good and there are plenty of valuable tools for the workflow of a professional photographer.
At least Nik, and onOne will help us make the move to LR if so inclined free of charge. thats a good thing to hear.
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Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunnelling through a mountain with your forehead.
"Can't innovate any more, my ass" Phil Schiller
Hi everybody, first post here, registered at last.
At first, when i knew about this, i was pretty scared. All my library is in aperture, an there is no easy way to migrate to other RAW editor. But then, after reading the apple sentence and looking at the screenshot of the Photos app, i calmed down an decided to wait n see. Why? Because i don’t really see the problem right now. Apple says that you can migrate your aperture library to Photos app. If Photos is a non destructive editing app, and looks like it is, this should mean that it can read metadata and adjustments, and of course means that it can apply those adjustments and metadata. So the tools have to be there somewhere, just hidden.
And then there is the screen capture of the Photos app. It looks to me like aperture with a redesign and some name changing to controls. Just look at the white balance section. The same drop down menu, the eye drop tool, and the warm control. And then the “add” button. Im confident they are only hiding most advanced options for the non-pro audience.
I really think they are just using aperture to replace iPhoto, add the cloud and sharing stuff, a facelift and changing its name to something more appealing to the non-pro-photo crowd.
This reminds me a lot of what happened in Logic Pro X. They simplified the interface and tools, but added an option in Logic preferences to show all the Pro stuff. Selecting this option you have exactly the same tools and editing power that you had in Logic Pro 9, plus all the new bells and whistles.
Knowing that aperture will work for at least two years from now, i think its not the time to panic.
Right now, i only see two problems. First, if I’m correct, this means some more months without a significant update to aperture, and most likely, the Photos app will only focus in adding the cloud stuff, so no new noise reduction algorithms ,better sharpening tools or lens corrections. Second, the zero feedback apple is giving. All this drama and panic could be avoided (or justified) just giving a little more information. But this is apple customer feedback at its best.
Maybe I’m wrong (hope not) but for now I’m gonna wait and see. The adobe cloud model is just too much for me.
“ most likely, the Photos app will only focus in adding the cloud stuff, so no new noise reduction algorithms ,better sharpening tools or lens corrections.”
Apple has been working their tails off. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the algorithms in Aperture weren’t improved in some way or another. They will also have CIFilter which allows you to make edits before the final (raw) image is drawn. This will allow for less image degradation because the way photo editing is currently done, you lose some info when you apply filters like say, “Contrast”.
I’m not aware of any of Adobe’s products doing edits at this level. This, to me, without question, sounds like something that would appeal to a professional photographer.
First, when you say Photos app will have “no new noise reduction algorithms, better sharpening tools or lens corrections”, it seems you did not watch the WWDC keynote or the WWDC Session Videos. You might start here. To me, this is very promising!
Second, I totally agree with your comment about lack of feedback from Apple. Why, or why, won’t they issue a simple (and tantalizing) one-liner to reassure the professional users re. the future of Photos on the Mac?
This “advance notice” from Apple has created quite a stir…you think? Like throwing a rock at a hornets nest.
I personally had been using LR since its inception. Once I reached LR4 I decided to give Aperture a try. I was hooked and absolutely loved the organizational power of it. Its clean interface and seamless workflow captured me. The only thing missing for me (that LR had) was lens correction built in.
I spent a good deal of time and effort to migrate from LR to Aperture. I bought books on learning Aperture and joined this site to learn things from Joseph. Now I’m expected to go back again? I don’t think I’m ready to stomach that.
I’m not expecting the world by any means but I think I’ll wait and see what Photos brings.
Oh and Apple has to know about (perhaps expected) the uproar from many dedicated users out there. I know how tight-lipped this company can be about future developments but I think they need to open up this time. I think they owe us at least that. If they have no intention of supporting the pro or serious amateur with this new Photos direction then they need to come clean so we can move on. End rant.
Lens correction will be built into the OS (Yosemite). This is far more better and powerful than simply adding it to Aperture because it allows other apps to use this info.
i loved this product but I can not invest a large amount of work and find it not supported or that i must learn a new apple program to continue. If I need to up my skills I will go back to lightroom and photoshop
I knew this was coming, I’ve been using LR5 for almost 2 years now. I still use Aperture but the lack of proper noise reduction and the combination of the new LR features just got so good so fast I was thinking either they’re going to do a Mac Pro and blast us away or it will die out. There are still things that Aperture does better especially that library, nothing beats that library.
Well written Joseph, I’ll hang on for hope. I do have abode everything now which runs very smoothy but I’m still wary of them.
Oh and BTW as far as cloud storage goes has anyone bothered checking different cloud storage pricing? That might make for a good read. No this is not a plug BUT, It’s just that I have a SmugMug account with a SmugVault for my photo cloud storage run by Amazon. OK so it’s no iCloud or Adobe stream lined process but is it cheaper? I just got my last bill for monthly storage which is @ 7GB and it was $1.39. Might be worth looking into, which I just did and and Amazon S3 deal is considered one of the safest and cheapest. 1st 5GB are free and then 0.95c per GB so that’s about right for my price. I’m in AU. Couldn’t find a thing about upgrading storage on CC, just that you get 20GB if you have a full subscription or 2GB for the photography subscription and Apple’s is so disgracefully expensive I’m not going to bother mentioning it.
Scott Kelby just posted on Google+ that he and Matt Kloskowski are holding a Webinar on Monday June 30th at 7PM New York Time. The Webinar will be about making the move from Aperture to Lightroom fast, fun, and easy. He stated the link will be posted tomorrow.
If anyone is interested in finding out how to move from Aperture to Lightroom Scott Kelby & Matt Kloskowski of KelbyOne is holding a FREEWebinar Monday, June 30th at 7pm ET.
Well … if I ever leave Aperture … it won’t be going back to anything with an Adobe logo attached … regardless how fast, fun and easy Scott Kelby claims it can be. There are reason I no longer use Lightroom … and Adobe has done nothing to address those reasons since.
Nothing has changed with Aperture. it is still as viable a solution as it was a few days ago … and will be supported for at least a few more years … there is no need to invest the time, effort and finances into migrating/transitioning elsewhere … just yet.
We have time to take our leisure and assess ALL the possible options. There is absolutely no need to make a hasty move now.
What EVERYONE has to remember is that no matter what Apple brings out, Aperture IS compatible with Yosemite, and alway will be. No one is forcing you to upgrade from Yosemite, so if your happy with that OS, stay with it.
Aperture is going to do the same as it has always done, nothing has changed in that manner, so we have at least 12 months before should start to get worried.
I really think people are unnecessarily getting a head tidy and not for no reason at all. Nothing has changed as far as far as Aperture works, and Apple is going to do another update to support Yosemite. I believe we will not see any new features, but if you like your Aperture the way that is, nothing will change as you have at least another 12 months of grace.
I really think we will be surprised with what Apple is doing with Photos. I don’t believe Apple believe the pro photographer out in the dark, and I really think we will be surprised at the features photos has even in the first version. Hussein from the screenshots that it looks like and still has some of the features aperture had, and we all know Apple like to hold the cards to their chest so they aren’t going to show off too much just yet so others like Adobe, Google and Android, can get very grubby little hands on them.
I’m really hoping the next few beta builds of Yosemite, I get to have a look at the Photos, and then I will make my choice.
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Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunnelling through a mountain with your forehead.
"Can't innovate any more, my ass" Phil Schiller
The reason this surprises me the most, but also makes me positive about what is to come is …
Aperture has consistently been in theTop 10 Top Grossing Apps since it’s release.
That seems to be quite a revenue source Apple would be throwing away if they are not replacing it’s functionality in Photos for OSX. If they are including it in the OS itself, maybe there will be in-app purchases or plug-ins for Pro functionality? Who knows …
Just think about the possibilities though - Nik &DXO plugins working natively and non-destructively on your RAWs, no baked TIFFs needed. That would be a major step forward for me.
Hopefully the RAW format support is open too, so it’s not just Apple that are creating profiles for new cameras.
This was disappointing news - but it’s worth looking at what we do and do not know:
Aperture still works just as it did a month ago. It didn’t suddenly implode.
Apple has said it will release one final update to Aperture to ensure compatibility with OSX Yosemite (10.10).
Apple has said it will replace iPhoto and Aperture with the new Photos app.
Aside from some screen shots and short demos at WWDC, we do not know what Photos will and won’t do.
Apple has said “When Photos for OS X ships next year, users will be able to migrate their existing Aperture libraries to Photos for OS.”
Apple has NOT, apparently, said that it will work with Adobe to help users transition to Lightroom.
At WWDC, Apple described their new photo architecture that will be built into the OS. They explained that other developers will be able to insert their image adjustments directly into the raw conversion stream, in a non-destructive way.
So we should expect Aperture to work quite a while into the future. And we should expect some powerful new technologies for photo post processing, from Apple as well as the likes of Google Nik, Topaz, and OnOne.
What we don’t know is how much of Aperture’s magic will make its way into the Photos app. I’ve read that Apple has said that adjustments made to photos in Aperture will transition - non-destructively - into Photos, along with folders, albums, captions, etc. Trouble is, I haven’t seen a direct quote from Apple about it.
In the meantime, Adobe and others are exploiting the news of Aperture’s demise to their own benefit. No surprise, but we end up having to wade through a lot of FUD to get to the facts.
Me? I’m willing to wait and see… and continue using Aperture in the meantime. It is a great tool, after all!
The number one problem in all of this is that nobody knows what is coming next, and this is Apple’s biggest failings. I believe its endemic in the corporate culture unfortunately. They are too damn secretive for their own good sometimes, and they really do believe that customers should just trust them, “we know better than you what you need”. I used to work at Apple, I’ve seen the sausage making up close. I had to sign an NDA that said I won’t tell other people INSIDEAPPLE what it was I was doing.
Will Photos be good? Almost certainly. Will it be everything that the pros and the power users need? Uncertain. Is Apple handling this poorly? Absolutely.
As much as I love Aperture’s project-based management vs. Lr’s folder based management, I’m no longer willing to wait and see if Photos includes any pro or semi-pro editing features - directly or via plug-ins. I, like a lot of others, have been in a wait and seem mode for a couple of years hoping Apple will update Aperture with much needed features. That really hasn’t happened.
My Aperture library has been migrated to Lr, and safely archived on a spare drive. I’ll give Photos a whirl when it comes out next year, but I’m finding that Lr’s editing features are better than what Aperture currently offers.
Apple is behaving like the bloke who screws around so his girlfriend finds out and dumps him.
Why not announce Aperture’s demise 3 weeks ago at WWDC?
Why not say, “But don’t worry; Photos will be the mutt’s nuts and you’ll be able to do everything in Photos that you could in Aperture”. (Or not).
It’s bewildering. I know that there’s no such thing as bad publicity but this is goes well beyond that.
They could have taken advantage of the anti-Adobe CC sentiment (and remember, Apple hired Nack, FFS).
Instead, there’s this masturbatory FUD which alienates so many. Not everyone who uses Apple products is a fanboi who sups the Apple Koolaid unquestioningly.
I switched to Lightroom two years ago because I found Adobe Camera Raw to be superior to Apple’s RAW processing. However, I never abandoned Aperture. Why? I strongly preferred Aperture’s photo management. With current work, I import into LR and edit my photos there. I then export the finished images as JPEG’s and import them into Aperture where I apply keywords. I’ll probably use Photos in the same capacity as Aperture.
When I made the switch to Lightroom, I would export a project’s Raw photos and then import them into Lightroom. Then I would delete the images from the project in Aperture. I then would edit the photos in Lightroom, as well as remove many of the ones I previously kept in Aperture. After editing, I would export the JPEG’s and then import them back into the same project in Aperture.
In short, I basically use Lightroom for my work environment and Aperture for storage. This works well for me. I expect Photos to be able to replace Aperture for this process.
Jeff, I don’t get it. You use LR to edit photos, but Aperture to manage them. In the mean time you’ve lost non-destructive editing, you’ve lost your original RAW files so you can’t even re-edit by starting from scratch. And created for yourself a lot of extra work.
Actually, I still have the RAW files. They are in Lightroom. I’m using Aperture to store the exported jpeg’s. Easier to integrate with Flickr, Apple TV, etc. with Aperture than Lightroom. Aperture is just my storage medium for a “finished” image. I’m more comfortable with the keyword support in Aperture, and there’s a lot of them. Didn’t feel like reinventing the wheel in Lightroom.
This is reminisant of when Apple Released FCPX. The paradign changed and many swore they were running for Adobe Premire. Yes Apple didn’t handle that change well, FCPX lacked some features and they were brought back. But I would think they learned from that. Relax Aperture will continue to work well past the release of Photos for OSX. And by then third party software will be well on their way with plugins. In other words don’t panic. All those that hated FCPX first release and swore they were leaving well that didn’t happen. And now most praise the current edition. No one likes change, but it is enevable when it comes to software and hardware. “No Lotus ,No Wordperfect, how could they”. “No floppy disk, oh my. “No DVD woo!! is me”. “No PC , a tablet, really”. ”A camera without a mirror, no way”. I love Aperture and I’m sure I’ll like whats coming once the learning curve is over. Relax folks.
Hi all, I thought I’d add my two bob’s worth (may not be worth that much) but I am happy with Apple’s changes, as much as I understand them.
I’ve been struggling to become comfortable with Aperture for years, bought the books, seen the tutorials etc. However, my needs are becoming less complex, less “professional”.
My main camera now is the iPhone, I love iOS and editing on the iPad. As a result, I have already moved over to iPhoto as a primary app for photos. I would like to see more options and Photos may well provide all I need.
In addition, I have been struggling to find a good cloud storage app after the demise of Everpix, which was fantastic. Carousel just doesn’t cut the mustard. With announcements around increased iCloud storage at a reasonable price, and knowing that Apple (eventually) do a job very well, I am hopeful that the new cloud storage options will solve the problem of cloud storage.
So, sorry to say, I see the news as positive. Let us all hope!
As more hard information becomes available it would be great if AE set up tutorials on how best to prepare ones Libraries to migrate to Photo, LR etc.
It would seem that Vaults will become obsolete as I doubt they will have any value in Photo. Perhaps it is time to at least make the second (or third) backup of Libraries and clear the EHD space taken up by Vaults.
Not true both iPhoto and aperture work as expected in OSX 10.10 DP2
I cannot expand on this as I am under NDA from apple for OSX development
Yes I am. Registered dev
Stuart
I for one am very upbeat about forthcoming Photos App. There are screen shots with sliders that resemble Aperture. If Apple really was trying to tell photographers to kiss off they wouldn’t be embedding raw file handling and lens correction into the OS. Name 1 operating system that embeds the raw file handling and lens correction into the OS itself.
I don’t think Tim Cook is a stupid man and I think there’s a reason Apple keeps buying back their stock. Apple has never been a boastful company, and in the past, always kept estimates super conservative, until the quarterly reports came out and turned out the numbers were considerably lower than reality. I think we are looking at something similar with photography on the Mac, I think Apple is giving us some info, but in reality there’s an explosion to be experienced.
What I would like to see, is analysis on Photokit. What is this? I know it’s a new API but what are the implications and ramifications on future apps? From WWDC I learned that Apple is rolling out an API that will allow apps to run inside of apps on mobile devices but what exactly will Photokit allow developers to do that will help us edit our pictures better?
From all indications, Apple has been working their absolute tails off. Apps are getting more and more powerful than ever. With their power of interoperability I think even Apple may not know their full potential which could be one reason why they aren’t saying much.
We know that all future apps on OSX will be able to access photos from the exact same place, that being the “Photos” folder. And all apps will obviously have access to the raw file info, lens correction and likely other info as well. Will those apps also have access to edits done by other apps seamlessly?
The potential power of photo manipulation that Yosemite offers could be significantly greater than any solution current offered on the market. We will have to wait and see.
For me personally, I enjoy using lesser editing programs like Pixelmator and Camerabag 2. For these programs to not only have access to raw image manipulation and lens correction, but be a part of a larger, interoperable editing ecosystem is incredible.
I agree 100%, and yours is the most realistic, balanced comment I’ve read to date.
-- Jim
What is needed for any transition, be it to a new photo system under MacOS/iOS and/or LR:
1) Library structure. iPhoto and Aperture already share this except for the managed/referenced distinction. I think LR users with referenced files will have to move to LR or other. Stacks. If the new photo app could add anything from Aperture it should be stacks. Filters and Rules in Aperture are exactly why I switched from iPhoto and why LR is not so good for me. These are the heart and should of Aperture and where any feedback we can give Apple should go.
2) Metadata. This should be easy as there are existing industry and ISO and IPTC standards. iPhoto clearly lacks here so an upgrade the the photos app in MacOS future is necessary. It’s also dead easy.
3) Sharing. This should ale be relatively straightforward for those sticking with the Apple solution. In fact, it will likely get better. I really, really hope Apple keeps their hard copy publishing options. They are excellent and well managed IMO. Very pleased there even if it is a small effort in photo sharing overall.
4) Presets and imports. This is likely to rely increasingly on the new RAW import engine. I suspect one of the key reasons why Apple has dropped the pro app for photos has to do with the haphazard way different companies implement their RAW. Adobe has these customers as their bread and butter, but it is a tiny market in reality. So anything like presets and lens profiles will probably be prepped out to plug-ins.
5) Plug-ins. Maybe the new photo app can replicate Silver Efex and so on (I love that sub-app). Have to see. I suspect the relevant and current plug-in crowd will allow a simple migration, but it remains to be seen if like-for-like w/non-destruct will also transfer. Might be a real headache.
6) Adjustments. This is the BIG one for most people here who avoid Photoshop unless they absolutely have to. iPhoto is 75% there, but the layout is…kludgy comparatively. Hopefully Jony Ives and company can figure out the better way and improve things.
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To some extent people have to understand that some of what made Aperture special has already migrated to other apps. iPhoto (which will be replaced by the new Photos app as iLife is now bye-bye) already has a lot of what Aperture does, just in a less sophisticated, power user arrangement.
Light Table and Web Journals from Aperture made an appearance in iOS Photo Journals. Faces and Places are not only cross-app, but the new Nikon D810 actually has face recognition in it and many pr users are finding FD to be very handy (and accurate). So some stuff is being done in-camera and no longer needs a dedicated desktop implementation. Like focus points.
Both iPhoto and Aperture are terrible at handling video which has become an issue unto itself with cloud services. We’ll have to se how Apple handles that now that iLife (and presumably iMovie) are goners.
I am relieved that a giant like Apple appears to be wiping the slate clean and starting from scratch. I hope they have the foresight to keep the good stuff, like the clean Aperture layout. iPhoto is a kludge and Aperture is very intuitive so I am actually more relieved to hear that iPhoto is also going. Just look at how Aperture and iPhoto and iPhoto for iOS handle straighten. Aperture is the genesis for doing it right and the current iPhoto is the backward dog in the mix.
To some extent people have to understand that some of what made Aperture special has already migrated to other apps. iPhoto (which will be replaced by the new Photos app as iLife is now bye-bye) already has a lot of what Aperture does, just in a less sophisticated, power user arrangement.
Light Table and Web Journals from Aperture made an appearance in iOS Photo Journals. Faces and Places are not only cross-app, but the new Nikon D810 actually has face recognition in it and many pr users are finding FD to be very handy (and accurate). So some stuff is being done in-camera and no longer needs a dedicated desktop implementation. Like focus points.
Both iPhoto and Aperture are terrible at handling video which has become an issue unto itself with cloud services. We’ll have to se how Apple handles that now that iLife (and presumably iMovie) are goners.
I am relieved that a giant like Apple appears to be wiping the slate clean and starting from scratch. I hope they have the foresight to keep the good stuff, like the clean Aperture layout. iPhoto is a kludge and Aperture is very intuitive so I am actually more relieved to hear that iPhoto is also going (just look at how Aperture
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I sort of figured this was going to take place. That is why over the years I have setup Lightroom and now glade I did. Also since nearly four months after the release of the Sony A6000 and still no Raw Camera feature persuaded me to move on to Lightroom just about full time now. Now I see no need at all to do any work with Aperture.
Now Derrick Story of the Digital Story posted Apple: Photos App to Replace Aperture http://thedigitalstory.com/2014/06/apple-photos-app-replaces-aperture.html He states that he will be working with Apple to help photographers move forward.
Also posted on MacRumors http://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/27/adobe-lightroom-vs-aperture/ Adobe released a statement that Aperture users should check out Creative Cloud.
Stuart
Website: http://www.stuartonline.com
Google+: https://plus.google.com/+StuartSchaefer/
Derrick Story also stated on Facebook:
“So, here’s what I think. First, in order to incorporate iCloud, OS X, and iOS, Apple had to build from the bottom up. The evolution might follow what we’ve n seen with Final Cut X - solid, but basic feature set initially that grows in complexity over time. My first option will be to migrate to Photos. If I don’t like it, I hop over to Lightroom. In the meantime, I’m sitting pat.”
Derrick seems to have a sane approach. Aperture did not suddenly implode, and it works as well (or poorly, if you wish) as it did a month ago. I’m eager for some new feature love from Apple, and Photos may offer it. Or Photos may offer the updated architecture so that 3rd parties can jump in. In any case, I will wait and see.
On the other hand, this is clearly an opportunity for all the Adobe/Lightroom/Photoshop gurus to make some money by encouraging iPhoto and Aperture users to migrate. They can exploit all the FUD to encourage people to come buy their books and training.
-- Jim
If this is what the new Photos app for MacOS will look like at its basic level, then it is more Aperture than iPhoto.
Compare that to the current iPhoto and what we are going to see from the Mac experience vis-a-vis the iOS experience is a professionalization lite of all Apple first party apps. The photo below looks pro compared to iLife anything.
I really think this is one of those glass half full, half empty moments… On it’s face this looks promising to me. It’s hard to know how much the final interface will resemble this render - but I’m thinking positively here. Now show me a way to brush in adjustments and watch me smile…
And if this IS what Photos will look like, then having as much screen Real Estate for your image is a good thing. Aperture or LR without going full screen and hiding everything on the Top, side;s and bottom, haven’t got a Image in the work screen like this Photo representation has.
1 tick in the Pro’s box already !!!
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Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunnelling through a mountain with your forehead.
"Can't innovate any more, my ass" Phil Schiller
What will be most helpful in an Aperture => Lightroom migration is if Apple exposes Adobe to their library organization data and Adobe translates that directly into Collection Groups and Collections. Pulling in the metadata should be a no-brainer. Unraveling the links to the master files and choosing a new folder structure for the physical disk org should not be too difficult.
Adjustments will likely be lost unless Apple and Adobe get really cozy and come up with some amazing conversion tool that at least does a best-effort translation between Apple and Adobe Lightroom settings. Unfortunately, adjustments are what take the majority of one’s time in processing, especially if you have masks for brushed in / brushed out effects.
What am I really going to miss most? Slideshows and Books. Aperture spanks Lightroom hands down in these two incredibly valuable areas. I’m very anxious to see whether Apple provides these features in the new Photos app. It would be nice if Photos inherited Books, Slideshows, Calendars, Cards, etc from both Aperture and iPhoto. Of course, with PhotoKit any third party should be able to reach down into our libraries and provide some amazing options for us.
Photographer | https://www.walterrowe.com | https://instagram.com/walter.rowe.photo
I’ve been in Aperture since version 1, and a certified trainer since the very beginning. It pains me to loose Aperture, since to this day I feel it provides the best organizational tools and most definitely the best UI out there for photo apps. That being said, as much as I dislike the ‘modal’ approach from Lightroom, once you move past it, it has some very good features. Needless to say their develop module it’s quite good and there are plenty of valuable tools for the workflow of a professional photographer.
In any case, this post about migrating to Lightroom from Aperture might be valuable to some of you: http://www.lightroomforums.net/showthread.php?22251-Aperture-to-Lightroo…
Martin Herrera Soler | www.martinhsphoto.com
At least Nik, and onOne will help us make the move to LR if so inclined free of charge. thats a good thing to hear.
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Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunnelling through a mountain with your forehead.
"Can't innovate any more, my ass" Phil Schiller
Hi everybody, first post here, registered at last.
At first, when i knew about this, i was pretty scared. All my library is in aperture, an there is no easy way to migrate to other RAW editor. But then, after reading the apple sentence and looking at the screenshot of the Photos app, i calmed down an decided to wait n see. Why? Because i don’t really see the problem right now.
Apple says that you can migrate your aperture library to Photos app. If Photos is a non destructive editing app, and looks like it is, this should mean that it can read metadata and adjustments, and of course means that it can apply those adjustments and metadata. So the tools have to be there somewhere, just hidden.
And then there is the screen capture of the Photos app. It looks to me like aperture with a redesign and some name changing to controls. Just look at the white balance section. The same drop down menu, the eye drop tool, and the warm control. And then the “add” button. Im confident they are only hiding most advanced options for the non-pro audience.
I really think they are just using aperture to replace iPhoto, add the cloud and sharing stuff, a facelift and changing its name to something more appealing to the non-pro-photo crowd.
This reminds me a lot of what happened in Logic Pro X. They simplified the interface and tools, but added an option in Logic preferences to show all the Pro stuff. Selecting this option you have exactly the same tools and editing power that you had in Logic Pro 9, plus all the new bells and whistles.
Knowing that aperture will work for at least two years from now, i think its not the time to panic.
Right now, i only see two problems. First, if I’m correct, this means some more months without a significant update to aperture, and most likely, the Photos app will only focus in adding the cloud stuff, so no new noise reduction algorithms ,better sharpening tools or lens corrections. Second, the zero feedback apple is giving. All this drama and panic could be avoided (or justified) just giving a little more information. But this is apple customer feedback at its best.
Maybe I’m wrong (hope not) but for now I’m gonna wait and see. The adobe cloud model is just too much for me.
Cheers.
If you want better sharpening etc. you need a plug-in or LR.
The new Photos app will support a plug-in architecture.
Photos will be free.
Actually this is the most advance notice of any product support I have ever seen from Apple.
“ most likely, the Photos app will only focus in adding the cloud stuff, so no new noise reduction algorithms ,better sharpening tools or lens corrections.”
If you watched WWDC they showed off their new noise reduction algorithm and lens correction which supposedly blows away the old ones: https://www.apertureexpert.com/tips/2014/6/6/wwdc-session-shows-lens-cor…
Apple has been working their tails off. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the algorithms in Aperture weren’t improved in some way or another. They will also have CIFilter which allows you to make edits before the final (raw) image is drawn. This will allow for less image degradation because the way photo editing is currently done, you lose some info when you apply filters like say, “Contrast”.
I’m not aware of any of Adobe’s products doing edits at this level. This, to me, without question, sounds like something that would appeal to a professional photographer.
First, when you say Photos app will have “no new noise reduction algorithms, better sharpening tools or lens corrections”, it seems you did not watch the WWDC keynote or the WWDC Session Videos. You might start here. To me, this is very promising!
Second, I totally agree with your comment about lack of feedback from Apple. Why, or why, won’t they issue a simple (and tantalizing) one-liner to reassure the professional users re. the future of Photos on the Mac?
-- Jim
This “advance notice” from Apple has created quite a stir…you think? Like throwing a rock at a hornets nest.
I personally had been using LR since its inception. Once I reached LR4 I decided to give Aperture a try. I was hooked and absolutely loved the organizational power of it. Its clean interface and seamless workflow captured me. The only thing missing for me (that LR had) was lens correction built in.
I spent a good deal of time and effort to migrate from LR to Aperture. I bought books on learning Aperture and joined this site to learn things from Joseph. Now I’m expected to go back again? I don’t think I’m ready to stomach that.
I’m not expecting the world by any means but I think I’ll wait and see what Photos brings.
Oh and Apple has to know about (perhaps expected) the uproar from many dedicated users out there. I know how tight-lipped this company can be about future developments but I think they need to open up this time. I think they owe us at least that. If they have no intention of supporting the pro or serious amateur with this new Photos direction then they need to come clean so we can move on.
End rant.
Dave
Lens correction will be built into the OS (Yosemite). This is far more better and powerful than simply adding it to Aperture because it allows other apps to use this info.
“Now I’m expected to go back again? “
No, I don’t think Apple said that - despite an errant comment in one of the early articles.
-- Jim
thay are done and so am I
i loved this product but I can not invest a large amount of work and find it not supported or that i must learn a new apple program to continue. If I need to up my skills I will go back to lightroom and photoshop
done deal
good by
JIM
I knew this was coming, I’ve been using LR5 for almost 2 years now. I still use Aperture but the lack of proper noise reduction and the combination of the new LR features just got so good so fast I was thinking either they’re going to do a Mac Pro and blast us away or it will die out. There are still things that Aperture does better especially that library, nothing beats that library.
Well written Joseph, I’ll hang on for hope. I do have abode everything now which runs very smoothy but I’m still wary of them.
Oh and BTW as far as cloud storage goes has anyone bothered checking different cloud storage pricing? That might make for a good read. No this is not a plug BUT, It’s just that I have a SmugMug account with a SmugVault for my photo cloud storage run by Amazon. OK so it’s no iCloud or Adobe stream lined process but is it cheaper? I just got my last bill for monthly storage which is @ 7GB and it was $1.39. Might be worth looking into, which I just did and and Amazon S3 deal is considered one of the safest and cheapest. 1st 5GB are free and then 0.95c per GB so that’s about right for my price. I’m in AU. Couldn’t find a thing about upgrading storage on CC, just that you get 20GB if you have a full subscription or 2GB for the photography subscription and Apple’s is so disgracefully expensive I’m not going to bother mentioning it.
Scott Kelby just posted on Google+ that he and Matt Kloskowski are holding a Webinar on Monday June 30th at 7PM New York Time. The Webinar will be about making the move from Aperture to Lightroom fast, fun, and easy. He stated the link will be posted tomorrow.
Stuart
Website: http://www.stuartonline.com
Google+: https://plus.google.com/+StuartSchaefer/
If anyone is interested in finding out how to move from Aperture to Lightroom Scott Kelby & Matt Kloskowski of KelbyOne is holding a FREE Webinar Monday, June 30th at 7pm ET.
You may register here: http://kelbyone.com/aperture-to-lightroom/
Should be interesting as they plan to give step-by-step on how to make the transition.
Stuart
Website: http://www.stuartonline.com
Google+: https://plus.google.com/+StuartSchaefer/
Well … if I ever leave Aperture … it won’t be going back to anything with an Adobe logo attached … regardless how fast, fun and easy Scott Kelby claims it can be. There are reason I no longer use Lightroom … and Adobe has done nothing to address those reasons since.
Nothing has changed with Aperture. it is still as viable a solution as it was a few days ago … and will be supported for at least a few more years … there is no need to invest the time, effort and finances into migrating/transitioning elsewhere … just yet.
We have time to take our leisure and assess ALL the possible options. There is absolutely no need to make a hasty move now.
What EVERYONE has to remember is that no matter what Apple brings out, Aperture IS compatible with Yosemite, and alway will be. No one is forcing you to upgrade from Yosemite, so if your happy with that OS, stay with it.
Aperture is going to do the same as it has always done, nothing has changed in that manner, so we have at least 12 months before should start to get worried.
I really think people are unnecessarily getting a head tidy and not for no reason at all. Nothing has changed as far as far as Aperture works, and Apple is going to do another update to support Yosemite. I believe we will not see any new features, but if you like your Aperture the way that is, nothing will change as you have at least another 12 months of grace.
I really think we will be surprised with what Apple is doing with Photos. I don’t believe Apple believe the pro photographer out in the dark, and I really think we will be surprised at the features photos has even in the first version. Hussein from the screenshots that it looks like and still has some of the features aperture had, and we all know Apple like to hold the cards to their chest so they aren’t going to show off too much just yet so others like Adobe, Google and Android, can get very grubby little hands on them.
I’m really hoping the next few beta builds of Yosemite, I get to have a look at the Photos, and then I will make my choice.
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Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunnelling through a mountain with your forehead.
"Can't innovate any more, my ass" Phil Schiller
The reason this surprises me the most, but also makes me positive about what is to come is …
Aperture has consistently been in theTop 10 Top Grossing Apps since it’s release.
That seems to be quite a revenue source Apple would be throwing away if they are not replacing it’s functionality in Photos for OSX. If they are including it in the OS itself, maybe there will be in-app purchases or plug-ins for Pro functionality? Who knows …
Just think about the possibilities though - Nik & DXO plugins working natively and non-destructively on your RAWs, no baked TIFFs needed. That would be a major step forward for me.
Hopefully the RAW format support is open too, so it’s not just Apple that are creating profiles for new cameras.
Maybe that’s not exciting if you just work with JPEGs, but then I’ve never understood doing that anyway. :)
This was disappointing news - but it’s worth looking at what we do and do not know:
So we should expect Aperture to work quite a while into the future. And we should expect some powerful new technologies for photo post processing, from Apple as well as the likes of Google Nik, Topaz, and OnOne.
What we don’t know is how much of Aperture’s magic will make its way into the Photos app. I’ve read that Apple has said that adjustments made to photos in Aperture will transition - non-destructively - into Photos, along with folders, albums, captions, etc. Trouble is, I haven’t seen a direct quote from Apple about it.
In the meantime, Adobe and others are exploiting the news of Aperture’s demise to their own benefit. No surprise, but we end up having to wade through a lot of FUD to get to the facts.
Me? I’m willing to wait and see… and continue using Aperture in the meantime. It is a great tool, after all!
-- Jim
The number one problem in all of this is that nobody knows what is coming next, and this is Apple’s biggest failings. I believe its endemic in the corporate culture unfortunately. They are too damn secretive for their own good sometimes, and they really do believe that customers should just trust them, “we know better than you what you need”. I used to work at Apple, I’ve seen the sausage making up close. I had to sign an NDA that said I won’t tell other people INSIDE APPLE what it was I was doing.
Will Photos be good? Almost certainly. Will it be everything that the pros and the power users need? Uncertain. Is Apple handling this poorly? Absolutely.
Bill Jurasz
Austin Texas
As much as I love Aperture’s project-based management vs. Lr’s folder based management, I’m no longer willing to wait and see if Photos includes any pro or semi-pro editing features - directly or via plug-ins. I, like a lot of others, have been in a wait and seem mode for a couple of years hoping Apple will update Aperture with much needed features. That really hasn’t happened.
My Aperture library has been migrated to Lr, and safely archived on a spare drive. I’ll give Photos a whirl when it comes out next year, but I’m finding that Lr’s editing features are better than what Aperture currently offers.
Apple is behaving like the bloke who screws around so his girlfriend finds out and dumps him.
Why not announce Aperture’s demise 3 weeks ago at WWDC?
Why not say, “But don’t worry; Photos will be the mutt’s nuts and you’ll be able to do everything in Photos that you could in Aperture”. (Or not).
It’s bewildering. I know that there’s no such thing as bad publicity but this is goes well beyond that.
They could have taken advantage of the anti-Adobe CC sentiment (and remember, Apple hired Nack, FFS).
Instead, there’s this masturbatory FUD which alienates so many. Not everyone who uses Apple products is a fanboi who sups the Apple Koolaid unquestioningly.
Russell
I switched to Lightroom two years ago because I found Adobe Camera Raw to be superior to Apple’s RAW processing. However, I never abandoned Aperture. Why? I strongly preferred Aperture’s photo management. With current work, I import into LR and edit my photos there. I then export the finished images as JPEG’s and import them into Aperture where I apply keywords. I’ll probably use Photos in the same capacity as Aperture.
When I made the switch to Lightroom, I would export a project’s Raw photos and then import them into Lightroom. Then I would delete the images from the project in Aperture. I then would edit the photos in Lightroom, as well as remove many of the ones I previously kept in Aperture. After editing, I would export the JPEG’s and then import them back into the same project in Aperture.
In short, I basically use Lightroom for my work environment and Aperture for storage. This works well for me. I expect Photos to be able to replace Aperture for this process.
Erratum to my post above - Nack was hired by Google and not Apple. Apple hired another Adobe big noise, Kevin Lynch.
Apologies - My typing was clouded by my righteous indignation.
Russell
Jeff, I don’t get it. You use LR to edit photos, but Aperture to manage them. In the mean time you’ve lost non-destructive editing, you’ve lost your original RAW files so you can’t even re-edit by starting from scratch. And created for yourself a lot of extra work.
Bill Jurasz
Austin Texas
Actually, I still have the RAW files. They are in Lightroom. I’m using Aperture to store the exported jpeg’s. Easier to integrate with Flickr, Apple TV, etc. with Aperture than Lightroom. Aperture is just my storage medium for a “finished” image. I’m more comfortable with the keyword support in Aperture, and there’s a lot of them. Didn’t feel like reinventing the wheel in Lightroom.
This is reminisant of when Apple Released FCPX. The paradign changed and many swore they were running for Adobe Premire. Yes Apple didn’t handle that change well, FCPX lacked some features and they were brought back. But I would think they learned from that. Relax Aperture will continue to work well past the release of Photos for OSX. And by then third party software will be well on their way with plugins. In other words don’t panic. All those that hated FCPX first release and swore they were leaving well that didn’t happen. And now most praise the current edition. No one likes change, but it is enevable when it comes to software and hardware. “No Lotus ,No Wordperfect, how could they”. “No floppy disk, oh my. “No DVD woo!! is me”. “No PC , a tablet, really”. ”A camera without a mirror, no way”. I love Aperture and I’m sure I’ll like whats coming once the learning curve is over. Relax folks.
G. Mitchell
Hi all, I thought I’d add my two bob’s worth (may not be worth that much) but I am happy with Apple’s changes, as much as I understand them.
I’ve been struggling to become comfortable with Aperture for years, bought the books, seen the tutorials etc. However, my needs are becoming less complex, less “professional”.
My main camera now is the iPhone, I love iOS and editing on the iPad. As a result, I have already moved over to iPhoto as a primary app for photos. I would like to see more options and Photos may well provide all I need.
In addition, I have been struggling to find a good cloud storage app after the demise of Everpix, which was fantastic. Carousel just doesn’t cut the mustard. With announcements around increased iCloud storage at a reasonable price, and knowing that Apple (eventually) do a job very well, I am hopeful that the new cloud storage options will solve the problem of cloud storage.
So, sorry to say, I see the news as positive. Let us all hope!
Taking Pics in Tassie
As more hard information becomes available it would be great if AE set up tutorials on how best to prepare ones Libraries to migrate to Photo, LR etc.
It would seem that Vaults will become obsolete as I doubt they will have any value in Photo. Perhaps it is time to at least make the second (or third) backup of Libraries and clear the EHD space taken up by Vaults.
Stan
sbysshe.smugmug.com
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