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GH5 vs GH5S Car Mounted Stabilization Test ► Why the GH5S has no IBIS!

Photo Moment - March 14, 2018

Have you wondered why the GH5S doesn't have a built in stabilizer (IBIS)? Watch this video to understand the reason — and why it's a GOOD THING.

 

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I think the differences and reasons are pretty clear to see. It's all about how you use the tool! What do you all think?

See something on the show that you want to buy?
Head on over to kit.com/PhotoJoseph

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•• Panasonic Lumix DC-GH5S ••
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Amazon - http://amzn.to/2CPAt4H
Adorama - http://jal.bz/2ma4TI1
doing gods work making me decide which camera to get. thank you so much.
GH5S on Ronin SC is shakier than my Mark3 handheld. this sucks I want to sell this camera
@PhotoJoseph microjitters . the camera picks up every tiny slight movement
I Hate Living in Apartments if the gimbal is transferring those kids of movements then it can’t be set up properly. Without a doubt. Gimbals are designed for cameras withOUT stabilization and often you need to disable stabilization or the two fight each other. The GH5S plus a gimbal should be the best solution possible.
@PhotoJoseph Ronin app reports balance as Excellent. I mean I do have to learn to move better with it
I Hate Living in Apartments That’s very odd indeed.
@I Hate Living in Apartments the same here, whatever settings i tried for month, having non stab lens on camera using ronin sc every now and than gives disgusting jitters/shakes when moving fast/walking steps but stabilised lens with it ON-perfect result even if running - have no ibis on my cameras-the reason got gimbal....
This is the only one of the other uses where, in turn the ibis is extremely useful! So I vote for GH5! Thank you so much the video!
Glad you enjoyed!
Only the GH5S sensor is not fixed in place. No stabilization doesn’t equate to fixed in place. I have the GH5S and if I hold it up to my ear and tilt the camera forward and back on the tilt axis, the sensor can be heard rattling, the same as the two GH5 cameras that I returned for this reason. I can also see the sensor rocking back and forth. I find it hard to believe that I’m so unlucky to have gotten 3 defective cameras with loose sensors. I must admit that I was very disappointed to find the issue with the GH5S after having anticipated having a better version of my old GH4.

Watching your video here, the GH5S footage is horrible. Hold it up to your ear and tilt it back and forth and listen to the sensor rattle and report back.

Here’s some footage from my GH5S + Ronin-S + 8-18 mm Panasonic at 8mm. Total junk. And I’ve gone round and round with DJI who has the worst support on the planet. The Gimbal is setup properly.

https://youtu.be/ZpUFoXEqdBs
@Relax and Explore


1. Good


2. I can't even imagine… I have recorded thousands of hours on the GH5 and never heard the sound you're talking about on the recordings. I always use an external mic if the audio matters at all, from shotguns to booms to lavs. Even with a small RODE VideoMicro, I've never heard that. Perhaps you should move the mic off the camera, attached to the gimbal itself, which would both remove the weight and odd balance of it off the gimbal, and move it farther from the camera.


3. See #2


4. Configuring gimbals right isn't easy, and walking "steady" is not necessarily the right way to walk with a gimbal. Search "how to walk with a gimbal" here on youtube and you'll find hundreds of videos. Matti and Brandon are good but you'll find plenty. Also Max Yuryev has some videos specifically on using the GH5 on a gimbal.


5. I was sure to look at that video at 4K60. Don't use the default upload from Final Cut; go through Compressor and crank the bitrate up. I used to upload at 30mbit but just recently started pushing to 50mbit. It's a larger file so it takes longer to upload but it's worth it in the end. I'm assuming it looks much better in Final Cut than it does in YouTube?
PhotoJoseph

Regarding the mic, I use a Rode Stereo Videomic X attached to the camera hot shoe. It was picking up the rattling sound from the GH5 not the GH5S. I returned one to Best Buy and had the opportunity to talk with the camera salesman and he couldn’t believe how loud it was. He was shocked and immediately refunded me.

Regarding the bitrate, I see it crystal clear in 4K on my end, so it’s odd and concerning that you and others see something different. I wonder if my other videos look the same to you?
I'm really confused… you were talking about the GH5S sensor moving (when it's not) but now you're talking about the GH5 sensor moving (which it is). You should only hear the sensor moving when the camera is off, because the magnets aren't active. I don't have mine with me to verify that but you are without a doubt the first person to tell me they are picking up the sound of the sensor moving when using an external mic.

Regarding the bitrate; you're watching it on youtube and seeing it crystal clear? Or do you mean you're seeing it clear in your NLE? And yes all of your videos have that compression to them. I don't have the bandwidth here to walk you through getting better quality onto youtube but there's plenty of resources out there for that. I'm just glad you're getting good quality off the camera.
@PhotoJoseph in my last response I was talking about the GH5S and the GH5. I've owned both. I was making a comparison. I've determined that the rattle is not the sensor (GH5S or GH5), it's a plastic part (which doesn't seem to be the shutter) that sits in front of the sensor. Mystery solved, but it's still audible to the Rode Stereo Videomic X. You probably don't hear it because you don't do walking videos, just a guess.

Regarding compression, I use FCPX. I bought the compressor and now use 50mbps on the custom setting. FCPX doesn't allow such a configuration OOTB.
Good. Also in my tests anything about 30Mbit seems unnoticeable but you should run your own tests with your own content for sure.
What they actually should have done is design a way of parking the sensor. I’m sure a couple miniature servos could physically lock it in place? Great test tho. I guess if you want the best of both worlds you just need get a GH5 and GH5S 😂
I don’t think there’s space for that. Do you know if any camera does that?
@PhotoJoseph Not that I know of, but I know <6mm servos definitely exist... On a similar note, do you think using a lens with OSS switched off would still have an effect on the image? I've noticed when filming concerts the bass vibrations interfere with IBIS systems (Sony in particular) but now I've started to think about OSS lens optics floating around when OSS is switched off...
Yep, same problem. The glass elements are floating. I’d guess there’s less noticeable vibration since it’s optical movement but I haven’t tested
Thx for comparing... I think GH5s pretty stable though... Is your lens has Image Stabilizer in it?
The car test was with the 8-18mm so non-stabilized lens
@PhotoJoseph thx for answering! It looks pretty legit though without any IS... great review!
I had to get an in-car shot yesterday and rigged my GH5 + Lumix 12-35 lens with stabilization for BOTH turned ON. I had the camera mounted with two suction cups on the windshield connected to the cage via friction arms. The thing was rock solid. Got the footage off of the camera and it has those tiny micro vibrations. I didn't even consider using my GH5S. I think that I'm going to have to do some tests now b/c I need to re-shoot the footage.
Yep… the stabilizer isn’t designed for (and I don’t know that it even could be) those “micro vibrations” as you call them (good name). Sorry you had the experience but now when people complain to you that the GH5S has no IBIS, you can explain why 😬 Also when you test again don’t forget that lenses with IS are the same — floating elements that will still move when IS is off. Probably less of a problem than the sensor although I have not tested. That’d be interesting though. If you do end up testing stabilized vs non-stabilized lenses, I’d love to hear your results.
Holy freaking crap. You did a great job of showing the truth behind the lack of IBIS, but you've unintentionally done something far greater: you've shown how much more detail the GH5S captures over the GH5! If you look at the ribs and ends of the metal awning as you drive by, there's SO MUCH more detail in the edges and the reduced rolling shutter becomes obvious too. Thank you for this. Quality content, my friend.
Thanks man. I think it’s the elimination of the movement that’s allowing that to be sharper; not because of a difference in general sharpness on the sensor. But good catch for sure.
@PhotoJoseph Possibly, but even if that's true, the captured colors are richer as well. The movement shouldn't make the colors look better. I'd guess the fat pixels are responsible. Well, that or you didn't match color styles. By the way, was this with the newer firmwares (2.4/1.2)??
You may be right. I believe I set the color profiles the same but that's probably about it. Color matching wasn't a goal. The video is nearly a year old so whatever firmware was current then.
This is a late question. Which lens did you use for this comparison?
The 8-18mm
Thank you so much!! I wanted to know whether the lens you have used had O.I.S. or not.
I see. Didn't I cover that in the video? Silly me if not.
Sorry. It's my fault. I couldn't catch all of your words because I'm not an English speaker.
This is the reason I purchased the GH5s
You know… I think I like it better than the GH5!!
I own both. Love both!
I'm shooting a doco at the moment, and the GH5 and the in body stabilisation is incredible when you hand hold it. But the GH5s picture quality is better. Not sure if it's because of the slightly larger sensor? Ps Love you work!
Very interesting! Great post!
You can't argue with ibis lovers. Personally ibis is useless to me unless I do photography. I have my Sony for that. I'm inches away getting rid of the 5 and only using the 5s. 5s and Ronin are light year better than the atrocious warping effect of the gh5, let alone the obvious jitter as was shown here in an exemplary fashion. 👏👏👏👏
Cine Phile great point, but ibis is great for people shooting handheld, i personally prefer ibis handheld and glidecam than just Ronin, looks too mechanical for me, and most people over use it
Wow! GH5s is rock solid compared to the other two! Thanks for doing this.
My pleasure!
I wonder if they could design some kind of trigger in the GH6 that mechanically locks on the sensor when IBIS is turned off. Just so those car and Gimball/steadicam people can be happy.
Not likely. The sensor floats in a magnetic field. You’d either need physical, retractable “claws” that grab the thing, or magnets so strong they pick up nearby spare lenses ;-)
Yes I'm thinking retractable claws or something like that that mechanically holds the sensor stable when IBIS is disabled.
That’ll never happen. Take a look inside the body… there’s no room for that.
@PhotoJoseph Never say never ;)
I thought the other issue is that they are actually going using the "entire" sensor size to maximize anamorphic resolution, vs. GH5 which can only utilize a portion of sensor to allow movement. (same principle as with IS lenses).
The sensor in the GH5S is slightly larger than a standard M43 sensor, yes. This is possible because IBIS was removed.
Freak'in awesome... best actual "example" showing the reason the IBIS was left out. If anyone argues otherwise after seeing this they are just arguing for argument sake! Keep up the good work!
Thanks man. There are some comment threads here doing just that. Feel free to jump in :-)
Gr8! What lens was used? Can we see a stabilized native lens footage on the GH5s as well a Dual IS on the GH5 or was the footage shoot on that setup? If you would use the IS Lock on the car body, how would it looked?
Ah sorry I didn’t mention the lens. 8-18 Panasonic Leica (non I.S. lens). GH5 with I.S. OFF is one of the three comparisons.
Hey photojoseph, were you able to compare the jitter of an ois lens vs non-ois lens?

Also did the lenses you used in this video have ois? Thank you!
I agree!! that's true!! nice job and good conclusion
Lok send me here. 👋
Welcome!!
You've got it completely backwards. Don't watch the roof of the car, watch the background, check the trees. For most people, the subject is not the tripod your camera is mounted on, the subject is the scene you shoot. And b.t.w., the optical stabilization also has a floating element, and even in the non-stabilized lenses there can be a floating focusing elements.
I don’t know why we’re having this conversation. If you don’t like the camera… don’t buy it. If it fills a need at a price you like, then do. Sorry it doesn’t please you.
PhotoJoseph lol dude, what part of "I have both. They are absolutely fantastic camcorders!" Wasn't clear. The GH5s is an excellent camera. I'm just clarifying the misinformation that they voluntarily chose to remove IBIS because a few videographers complained about sensor vibrations while mounted to vehicles.

I 100% guarantee you the S still wouldn't have IBIS even if the GH5 not had that particular issue.
Sorry, you did say that. I’m just annoyed at how many people are telling me I’m wrong. I’m relating what Panasonic has told me. As an Ambassador I’m given information about the product. That is the explanation I was given and believe it or not, it isn’t bullshit. These cameras are used in Hollywood (fact) and I know a very specific client of Panasonic’s who requested the non-IBIS feature. Highly doubtful that they developed this camera for a single client so I think it’s safe to say that yes, enough people truly requested this to warrant its creation as-is. Everything is a balance and they can’t make twenty models of a camera. So they get high end market requests for a pile of features, and decide to develop a body to accommodate as many of them as possible. That is fact, not fiction, not made up, not marketing BS.
A lot of people have this misconception that every camera used in high-end production is an Arri or Red that costs as much as a small house. This is false. Movies are often shot (at least partially) with GoPros and DSLRs and cheaper camcorders, especially in a scene where the camera is likely to be damaged or even completely destroyed. Technicolor CineStyle exists because of this need to match the Technicolor film processes with modern DSLR video so that post-processing the final digital image will be easier. A lot of DSLR owners inappropriately use CineStyle because they think it'll make their movies look good but it's not made for that and it looks like crap on their lower-end cameras.

Also, Casey, keep in mind that the same problems which show up in car mount situations will also show up when shooting handheld. Every time a camera operator takes a step on the ground it sends a pulse up their body and into their arms and the camera. Stabilization systems can also wander looking for something to stabilize if they're already super stable in the first place, i.e. on a tripod or gimbal. For info on that, this article demonstrates the problem well: https://photonaturalist.com/when-not-to-use-lens-stabilization/
@PhotoJoseph Now we will have S1 and S1R, and if we see S1S in the market you were right, otherwise Casey's arguments were correct.
PS I own GH5S and love it. Interesting discussion right here.
I appreciate the video and can see the difference. Thank you.

What I don’t understand is why this is win. Would not people who are shooting in cars want stabilization and put them on gimbals? If so would this even matter? Thanks in advance.
Definitely not always. If you want to show the motion of the car, no. And this is just one example of harsh movement that you don’t want translating to the sensor.
IBIS and a gimbal is really not the best way to go always, you can get too floaty of an image.
That so why I am keeping my old G7 despite having the generally superior G9 😄.
I was wondering if you covered triggers anywhere. I am looking at the Pluto, MIOPS or similar triggers for various fun projects like lightening (or me running past...which is just as fast 😂 ha haa), and all the other cool features you can play with on them. It would be good to have a Panasonic focussed review of them.
I haven’t actually. I keep getting reminded that I should though
Excellent Demonstration!
Guess this would apply to running or moving fast paced with a gimbal
Crap where’s my reply? I wrote one… grrr. Ok here we go again. NO, running is absolutely NOT the same. Running is a big movement with a hard jolt at the end. Moving fast; same but less jolt. If you’re running you’ll want a proper gimbal. The IBIS in any camera is designed to stabilize hand movement, not walking or running. Think of the physics involved; the sensor only has so much space to move around in and compensate for camera movement. If you use a gimbal, I don’t think it matters much what camera you use. I haven’t done enough tests myself (but I know others have — check Max’s channel) to know if it’s better to have IBIS off or on when using a gimbal. But any difference will be negligible.
PhotoJoseph I've heard someone explain that with the gimbal and a camera with stabilization they've seen more gitter. So after seeing your video the gh5s looks more stable because of its lack of in camera stabilization. I Forgot to mention the gimbal in my first statement
Ok, but remember that you can turn stabilization off on the GH5 and that will be the same as the GH5S at that point on a gimbal. This video shows that GH5 stabilization off and GH5S are not the same thing in an environment like this — the very hard bounce of a car. But on a gimbal, it’s totally fine. That said if you’re going to primarily shoot on gimbals, then the GH5S is a better option so you have the dual native ISO.
short and sweet! :)
Glad you made this video for those who didn’t understand
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