Shooting NTSC in a 50Hz (PAL) Region
Photo Moment - December 07, 2018
If you're traveling to a PAL region, where the power cycles at 50Hz vs the 60Hz in North America, you'll get flickering in any shots with artificial light. Here's how to correct for it, and what to do when you can't.
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18:23 It would actually be 100fps. Man, your math needs some oiling, hehe.
18:05 I state that I’m looking for frame rates that “the GH5S is capable of shooting”. Man, your ears need some cleaning, hehe (I jest in all good fun… yes, 100 is the highest but that’s an unusual frame-rate and not one the GH5S supports)
In italy ex PAL we don't have analog transmitters anymore, there are still countries that uses analog PAL and not digital? Excepts for DVD is this still used?
I’m sure you can find analog stuff all over the world.
wao 110 at 30hz and 220. at 25hz???? where is that? you are mixing some terms! complete desinformation !
@@photojoseph He means it's not 30/25Hz, but 60/50Hz
Red's calculator does not assume 29.97 when you type in 29. It only works on Integers so whether you type in 29.01 or 29.97 or 29 it makes calculations for 29 (you are better of to put in 30 for 29.97). Notice the difference in calculated angle for 28 and 29 is almost the same as for 29 and 30.
Joseph, you are a Pro and lifesaver, not even pro camera shooters like Peter know this stuff maybe they didn't need. I also had this issue.
Thank you, and Peter does need this. I’m guessing he’d say he doesn’t care, but I don’t buy it.
I can't not find NTSC switch option on my S1. Please help me
I’m in the USA shooting under an led source that is just horrific and I’ve tried all that you’ve suggested in both this video and another one that explains flicker. I’ve tried setting it to NTSC 30p 360d and it’s about the best I can get, but I still get a very slight flicker. In PAL, 50p 360d, I get the same amount of slight flicker and it’s best look I can achieve. At this point, is it just a light source that isn’t going to allow me to remove the flicker completely? It’s a real disappointment when my phone can capture video under that light source without any flicker :/
Any other suggestions? Your explanation was great and thanks for putting all of this together 🙏
Any other suggestions? Your explanation was great and thanks for putting all of this together 🙏
HD 120 in PAL region. No matter what I set looks bad. 125th looks the best out of all but I would love to have a 180 shutter rule or more for slow motion video
Hello I am from india and when I shoot in manual mode in m50 with 60 fps and 1/125 shutter speed its starts flickering but in auto exposure mode there is no problem? Why
I know that here frequency is 50 Hz but does it matter today
I know that here frequency is 50 Hz but does it matter today
Les hertz est une fréquence, le "framerate" est la moitié de la fréquence.
50 Hz = 25 fps et non 25 Hz.
Bien à vous.
50 Hz = 25 fps et non 25 Hz.
Bien à vous.
Yes, but the electrical frequency flickers the light at a frequency that is in or out of sync with your frame rate.
I have a question, do you think it will flicker if you shoot 120p with 1/300 (sport video)? Or shutter speed doesn't really matter if it's 120 and not 100p?
Watch this video… https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
This is the only video I've found that properly explains what do to when mixing PAL/NTSC shooting and regions and it makes sense now where I was still confused after every other video. Thank you!
Thank you! You might enjoy this video then, as well. It gets really deep into the numbers behind it. https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
I am getting flickers in my s1 at 125fps i n india. What can I do ?????
Watch this video next: https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
Hi,
It has been a while since this was published but I was hoping to still find an answer.
I understood almost everything, thank you very much for the clear explanation.
However I am wondering about something. In the end you explained what to do with a GoPro; the instructions of setting up the camera are clear. However the example you used was using a 30p timeline. What would happen if I use a 24p timeline and drop a 25p PAL clip on there? Would the difference be visible and cause problems as well?
It has been a while since this was published but I was hoping to still find an answer.
I understood almost everything, thank you very much for the clear explanation.
However I am wondering about something. In the end you explained what to do with a GoPro; the instructions of setting up the camera are clear. However the example you used was using a 30p timeline. What would happen if I use a 24p timeline and drop a 25p PAL clip on there? Would the difference be visible and cause problems as well?
The flicker appears (or doesn’t) at the time of recording. Adding it to a different frame rate timeline won’t change the flicker. But you will notice skippped frames / stutters if you go from 25fps to 24fps. You could simply slow it down to 96% speed so it plays every frame (25*0.96=24)
So there is no safe way to shoot 120p in a PAL region even with 1/250 or 1/200 shutter speed?
Correct; assuming conventional lighting that you have no control over. Watch this video for a complete answer: https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
I live in Australia and I shot video in NTSC 24p and cell phones are all NTSC in PAL regions and that’s what we get. All my iPhone’s are NTSC.
Wow I had no idea… here’s a conversation I just had on Twitter about this https://twitter.com/photojoseph/status/1335945690250244096?s=21
Great video. There is also weirdness when going from 30p to 25p you end up with blended frames a lot of the time. We see this a lot in the UK with US made shows being broadcast here.
If the show was shot at 24p then they just speed it up to 25p, which can also be jarring especially with theme tunes lol.
If the show was shot at 24p then they just speed it up to 25p, which can also be jarring especially with theme tunes lol.
at last. i found the amswer I was looking for. haha thanks a lot. + 1 sub
Great. Never new all this, I live in NZ (Pal) Region and have Mavic Pro2 And hero 7 and have always struggled with timeline settings and camera settings. Didn’t even know I could change my Hero7 to Pal as it was set on NTS..needless to say I’ve always shot with 30& 60 on hero and 30 with the MAVIC. Always wondered what good 25FSP was on Mavic as it never matched the Go Pro. My Videos always looked like a bad amateur...Now i know 25& 50 here I come...Hopefully I can become a not so bad amateur :)
Fantastic Video......all related factors for optimal video rendering, served like a buffet...flicker free, stutter free, frame rate...wow!
Can we please stop talking about NTSC and PAL? They don't exist anymore. Gone. Dead.
What exists are frame rates.
What exists are frame rates.
Indeed. It's surprising how many people have no idea what PAL and NTSC are are how they confuse frame rates with colour encoding. Nobody with a digital camera is shooting in NTSC or PAL in these times. They may well be using an analog camcorder from the 90's which will be PAL or NTSC.
Sure… unless you work in broadcast. Then they’re still relevant.
Well i still can't remove anything with my house light
Does that mean you can’t remove flicker? Is it an LED light? Some cheap LED bulbs have a flicker that has nothing to do with Hz. Many LEDs actually turn on and off very rapidly. It’s a way to save costs. But it’s a disaster for photo and video. Look up “pulse width modulation”; pretty sure that’s what will explain it all to you.
Thank you that was brilliant.
I practically learned all the setting for the GH5 with you!!!! thanks I love your channel!! I have now also the G9, but i can set in in MOV in FHD 24fp so i can get VFR in 24.... only 30fps... I dont know why, do you?
thanks! You said you can but did you mean you *can’t*? Please re-write your question so I can fully understand it, thanks
Thank you. thats a big topic to explain, but you've helped me a lot.
very informative, you cleared some of my doubts, thank you 🙏🙏
One thing I didn't understand is why a 30p timeline was non-negotiable for you? If we are talking web delivery then why not just shoot 25/50 and deliver 25? It's gonna play just fine from YouTube no matter where you are or what screen you're on.
True… and I don't remember when I did this what the reason was; this was a while ago. But there are any number of reasons this could be important to someone so regardless of MY reasoning, the info is useful to many.
Exactly what I was looking for. Very nice & precise information. Will experiment with nntsc in India (pal) 😊
I’ve shot a bunch of NTSC video in India. Definitely have to watch out for this! If you’re really interested in the technical side of this, watch this video next: https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
Should I shoot everything in PAL if I live in a PAL country or not?
In general, yes, that’ll make life easy for light flicker and/or if you’re broadcasting. If you can’t decide after watching this video, here’s another one to watch: https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
Hey Joseph thanks for the video! Was just wondering if you could change the region on the G9 at all ie PAL to NTSC?
You can not. That’s a GH feature, sorry.
Yikes 🤔 The Red flicker free calculator says "None" for any frame rate above 120 with 60Hz (North America) power or 100+fps with 50Hz (Europe/Asia) power. Also, the calculator's code treats input as integers and just ignores decimal values without even rounding - so the correct input is 30 fps, not 29. When shooting high-speed, the frame rate can be any whole multiple of the lighting power frequency.
I don’t recall when I figure out that the red calculator treated 29.97 like 30 but that was definitely annoying. I did a follow up video that’s much more in depth that you may enjoy https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
Guys please suggests me PAT OR NTSC which one is better for gopro hero 7 black
Useful video thanks, glad I watched it before buying 50 Hz lights! When working with the safe shutter angles e.g. 108, 216, 324 at 30 fps would different shutter angles result in different looks? Would the higher shutter angle like 324 let in more/less light or provide more/less blur for example?
@@photojoseph Cheers, that's good to know! I own a GH5 so I guess, in theory, shooting at 60 fps with a shutter angle of 216 would be flicker-free, have improved continuous AF plus a more natural video look with some blur?
Lower shutter angle is the same as higher shutter speed. So if you’re shooting 30fps at a 10d shutter, that’s 10/360 x 1/30. I’ll let you do the math. So that will freeze the shot making no motion blur. Remember that motion blur is good in video. 180d shutter is ½ open do in a 30p shoot that’s 1/60 second exposure. Slow for still photography but perfect for video. So stay as close to 180d as you can, unless you have a creative reason to go higher or lower.
WTF? Those seams like a 60's theories with the You Tube 📹 era and flat screen TV 📺
I don't know what you mean by your comment, but flicker is real. Watch this video for a very in-depth explanation https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
That was enormously helpful. Especially since I live in a PAL region and was getting excited about shooting 4k 60p footage with my new cam. I'll now watch be able to get around the problem with your advice. Thanks a ton!
Hi Joseph. Really a useful video, thank you very much for your explanation.
Somehow I understand it completely because I also struggle with the same problems.
I've done shutter speed correction and slowing down footage just like you.
Only figure out shutter angle from this video though. New things I've learnt from you so let me thank you again.
I am just a hobbyist videographer, mostly shooting my kid growing up. Therefore I'd just keep it simple by switching between PAL/NTSC in all of my cameras.
And I just knew from your video that G9 can't switch region, so thank God I didn't buy that camera.
I'm travelling to Japan soon and to keep it simple I will just shoot both PAL and NTSC and produce 2 separate videos (east & west Japan).
But there's still one problem that grind my gears, guess what? iPhone! It only shoots NTSC.
I am using Panasonic GX9 (and GH6 when it comes out), Sony A6400, GoPro Hero 7 Black and iPhone.
You know kids are unpredictable and iPhone still is the most used camera to capture spontaneously.
So it looks like I need to limit my iPhone usage in east Japan to compensate this single problem.
Wish you the best luck for your channel Joseph.. !!
Cheers!
Somehow I understand it completely because I also struggle with the same problems.
I've done shutter speed correction and slowing down footage just like you.
Only figure out shutter angle from this video though. New things I've learnt from you so let me thank you again.
I am just a hobbyist videographer, mostly shooting my kid growing up. Therefore I'd just keep it simple by switching between PAL/NTSC in all of my cameras.
And I just knew from your video that G9 can't switch region, so thank God I didn't buy that camera.
I'm travelling to Japan soon and to keep it simple I will just shoot both PAL and NTSC and produce 2 separate videos (east & west Japan).
But there's still one problem that grind my gears, guess what? iPhone! It only shoots NTSC.
I am using Panasonic GX9 (and GH6 when it comes out), Sony A6400, GoPro Hero 7 Black and iPhone.
You know kids are unpredictable and iPhone still is the most used camera to capture spontaneously.
So it looks like I need to limit my iPhone usage in east Japan to compensate this single problem.
Wish you the best luck for your channel Joseph.. !!
Cheers!
Try downloading filmic pro for your iPhone. May give you more control. Also, since you enjoyed this video, watch this one next. Super techy on shutter angle and light flicker: https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
Some city in Japan use 50hz instead of 60hz. but the video standard of Japan is NTSC. So how NTSC works on 50hz?
Wow I just had to look that up. 50Hz in Eastern Japan, and 60Hz in Western. Go figure. Watch this video to fully understand frequency, flicker, and how to avoid it: https://youtu.be/0kAuDuV9K9U
Really useful, thank you. I have to use ntsc on the Sony A7 to get 24fps and I live in a PAL country. Loved the way you explained everything, I wish you a nice growth on YouTube.
Thanks for a great video!
Hi, Im thinking about buying a camera in Japan, which is restricted only to ntsc, but it is a lot cheaper(a6500). Should I not buy it because of the fact that it doesn´t have PAL? My country is pal, but i have used 24,30,60 fps and never seemed to have a problem
If you plan on shooting under artifical light then you could experience the flicker problem described here. So I'd definitely recommend getting a camera that is for your region.
Great Explanation. So with a G9 NTSC Camera the workaround works for 30/60p in 1080/4K for PAL region but not with 180p. Is that correct?
Correct. As long as you can set the shutter to 1/50 or 1/100 you’re fine.
This was really helpful! I’m moving to Africa to teach film and capture stories and I’ve been thinking a ton about this and then your video came out! Good timing!
Now I have a question. Is the difference in frequency due to the lights and how they’re made or are they due to the voltage?
For example, if I brought lights from here in the US NTSC, but they can handle 220v, would those be on the same frequency as lights that I would buy there? Can I mix different lights (NTSC & PAL)? What if I use a step down converter? Would that change the frequency of the lights?
Now I have a question. Is the difference in frequency due to the lights and how they’re made or are they due to the voltage?
For example, if I brought lights from here in the US NTSC, but they can handle 220v, would those be on the same frequency as lights that I would buy there? Can I mix different lights (NTSC & PAL)? What if I use a step down converter? Would that change the frequency of the lights?
Hey Joseph, the calculator on Red's site doesn't go above 120fps. Any extra ideas on how we manage VFR high frame rates like 180 or even 240 on the GH5s?
Good to know. Thanks Joseph.
I assumed that to mean you can’t do high frame rates at these odd lighting situations, since it says “none” for safe settings. Do you think that’s wrong? Ah yeah… the calculator goes to 400. Put in something over 400 and it says “Frame rate must be an integer between 5 and 400 fps”. So I think that’s right. 120fps may be the highest under 60Hz lighting.
I just got a GH5 yesterday and was going through the set up. I live in Australia so should I set it to PAL or leave it on NTSC? I set it up to use shutter angle and have that set at 180.
Hi Allen I have a GH5 I live in Australia and I have the camera set on NTSC so I can get the higher frame rates and I did get light flicker when using a 180 degree shutter angle
So now I use a 216 degree shutter angle @ 30FPS and all is good
So now I use a 216 degree shutter angle @ 30FPS and all is good
I am very curious if using so called hack on European cameras that switch between NTSC and PAL also works on American Panasonic cameras too. I have G7 in EU and also using it in "service mode" (hack) because I do like to shoot in 30 and 60 fps but then the shutter speed can be challenging with fast moving objects under the bulb.
I don't know anything about hacks, but any camera that can switch between PAL and NTSC makes this problem go away (assuming you don't mind shooting in an alternate format to what you're used to).
I think Peter McKinnon made a video himself of getting rid of the flicker in post, but copying the video in post, and offsetting one of the copies by 1 frame.... something like that anyway, https://youtu.be/YyQjFuFYchg (but I now think this won't work with a slow rolling flicker)
That video was about the neon light — yeah I don't think that would work here. If it did, he would have done it for his Dubai video.
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