GH5S Low Light Part 3 ► WTF with V-Log footage on ATOMOS Ninja Inferno?
Photo Moment - February 23, 2018
In part 3, we see the problem I've run into with the Atomos Ninja Inferno and the V-Log footage on an HDR timeline. Do YOU know what's wrong?!
Products Mentioned In Today's Photo Moment
Fotga Variable ND Filters — Get Yours Here
Pixco Lens Adapters — Get Yours Here
Panasonic Lumix DC-GH5S — Get Yours Here
Atomos Ninja Inferno — Get Yours Here
Panasonic LUMIX Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 — Get Yours Here
Mitakon Zhongyi Speedmaster 25mm f/0.95 Lens — Get Yours Here
Panasonic LUMIX Leica 15mm f/1.7 — Get Yours Here
Videos Mentioned In Today's Photo Moment
Most Gh5 users don't edit on FC pro, I edit in Vegas pro 17.. Is there any info that will allow us to use all of this complex stuff on Vegas (in my case)? or other NLE for the rest of us please?
I don’t know where you’re getting your statistics, but FCPX is an extremely popular editor. If you’re editing ProRes footage in HDR, I’m afraid you’re going to have to upgrade from Vegas. Try Premiere or Resolve on a PC.
What I can't figure out is, the imported v-Log clips still say rec709 in the inspector. I'm having the same issues with a Ninja Inferno. Also, for the life of me, I cannot get the waveform to show hdr, it's locked at rec709, even with a wide gamut library and project. And agreed that the ninja footage looks almost like it baked in some kind of v-log lut internally. The footage is not nearly as flat as internal.
I plugged it into my Late 2013 Macbook pro directly into its HDMI port and it recognized the ninja display immediately. Haven't tried it on my iMap Pro yet. I have no idea if it is actually displaying a HDR color profile though. I did discover that the Shogun/Ninja Inferno and SUMO's are both SDR displays and only capable of 9-10 stops of DR. The ninja/shoguns are slightly higher because of higher pixel density. I think this is a bit of marketing trickery. ;)@@photojoseph
Whoah. Ok I need to look at this at my desk. Question though; you’re using it as an external monitor; what interface did you buy?
@@photojoseph Now please tell me how I get my waveform to show rec2020! I can't get it to change from Rec. 709!! Lol. It's stuck from 0-100 and I'm pulling my hair out.
Still working on the ninja inferno setup, but I have it working as an external monitor without trouble. Just need to figure out the color space, but here's the kicker. I found out that both the Ninja Inferno and the Sumo, are actually rec. 709 displays. The Sumo can'y do about 9.8 stops of DR, and the Ninja a tiny bit more because it has more pixel density. As for your issue with the V-Log clips and the conversion LUT, there are two issues I found. #1 is that the LUT is actually a log to 709 LUT. So if you use it, you mess it up in HDR. #2, notice your clips say rec. 709 in the inspector. I couldn't figure that out since we are in Wide Gamut library, rec2020pq project and Vlog is supposed to be wide gamut. It turns out, final cut is reading that from the metal data. You need to override it by going into the inspector, choosing settings from the drop down and using color profile override to change it to Rec2020 PQ.
@@photojoseph
@@photojoseph
Honestly I never figured this out completely. I need to spend time on their booth again and really sort this all out. I also need an AJA IO that shows the HDR footage in an HDR monitor.
@@photojoseph I have gh5 and gh5s, so I am considering buying S1 :) I think that together they will create the perfect trio.
I really like Your movies. I learned a lot from them.
Shutter angle w/ 1d adjustments. Waveform monitor. PAL + NTSC. True VFR. Light enough to handhold on a gimbal for extended periods. Those are the top things that come to mind. There are places where S1 will perform better, no doubt. But overall, I’ll take the GH5 or GH5S.
@@photojoseph I wanted to ask why You think that gh5 is better than S1 from video?
Hello Joseph, I wonder if is possible to film 120 fps and keeping 4K with the atmos inferno?
Did you ever figure out this issue? Is the conversion LUT a Rec 709 LUT? Maybe it's not meant to be utilized in a HDR color space. Also, you could grade without the conversion LUT and just expand your contrast, saturation and color manually. Anyway, I enjoyed this mini series. I just recently picked up a GH5s and am scouring the Tubes for helpful content
Never did. Honestly I kind of gave up
OMG. LUTs are not made for Colorgrading! On Youtube are so much people thinking they are PROS, because they make youtube video! LUTs are made for DemoView on Filmset. How to Colorgrading LOG? Convert the Gamut and Gamma! FPX Amateur Software can not! Use Davinci! Make real Color management! LUTs are SHIT and only for hobbie!
Has this been fixed with the new Firmware?
Do you still recommend the Inferno, or should I wait for the new NinjaV? I am using Premiere.
Do you still recommend the Inferno, or should I wait for the new NinjaV? I am using Premiere.
Which custom lut you use? The official of Panasonic website?
Im using the one that’s built into Final Cut
I have a similar problem when I shoot in 3840 x 2160 V-Log at 59.94 fps with my GH5 and record with my Ninja Inferno in ProRes422HQ. The Rec 709 version is fine color correcting in FCPX 10.4. When I change the library and project to wide gamut Rec 2020 PQ, the highlights are cut off on the waveform monitor at about 60 nits though the shadows are not cut off.
PhotoJoseph I always do a rec 709 version first because that's the product I need to upload to my YouTube channel ASAP so my teammates can watch it. I've only been experimenting with doing an HDR version recently using a non-HDR monitor, the 27" 5K display on my 2017 iMac. I don't know if it's even feasible to successfully color correct and output an HDR version without an HDR monitor but I'm trying uploading short clips to YouTube and watching the results on my LG OLED65B7 that is an HDR display.
That makes sense, but wouldn’t you start with HDR and then do a Rec709 pass?
Yes I applied the Panasonic V-Log LUT in the inspector using Final Cut's built-in LUT not one I downloaded.
I just found out if I remove all effects from the footage, then the highlights are no longer cut off at 60 nits. So in the future it looks like when I color correct my project for HDR after I do a Rec 709 pass, I need to remove all effects from the footage first so the highlights are not cut off in the waveform monitor.
I just found out if I remove all effects from the footage, then the highlights are no longer cut off at 60 nits. So in the future it looks like when I color correct my project for HDR after I do a Rec 709 pass, I need to remove all effects from the footage first so the highlights are not cut off in the waveform monitor.
Ok… are you adding a primary LUT to your footage? By Primary I mean through the Inspector, not as an adjustment. And if so, which one and where did you get it… was it just there already (i.e. installed by default by Final Cut) or did you install it?
I would say its an FCPx problem. I have tried using the inbuilt LUTS with my (now sold) canon C100. Basically the same result you are getting. If you use a custom Lut then its OK. This suggests its the inbuilt LUTS
I have not had this issue with Atomos. I've shot on my GH5s in vlog with my Ninja Inferno with no issues like this. I also shoot in 24fps. Maybe your problem is related to shooting in 59.94? I don't know. But, I've never had clamping shadow issues using the GH5 or GH5s with my Ninja Inferno. I have not heard any issues from anyone else who has shot vlog with the GH5 and Inferno. You can search YouTube and find tons of videos of people shooting with the GH5s with no mention of the issue you're having. I hope you solve it.
I’m having the same issue Canon C300 Mark 11 and shogun Inferno
Thanks. Still trying to get to the bottom of this. Are you editing in FCPX in HDR mode?
With Davinci Resolve that would not have happened ;-)
Thank you. have the file loaded and will test it now.
Here's the clip from the video called "2.1 Ninja Inferno — 59.94 4:2:2 10-bit" -- that's the one to test. I've been told the LUT could be reducing the footage to Rec. 709 but I don't know that I buy that… am waiting for a response from Apple on that one. But if you can try this in Resolve, please do! https://www.dropbox.com/s/pszpqfvvnu4qzw7/2%2C1_NinjaInferno--5994_4%3B2%3B2_10-bit.mov?dl=0
PhotoJoseph Let me see what DavRes can go. I have never had ussues with my Davnci Panasonic GH5 combo.
Are you a user? I have Resolve but don’t know enough how to use it. If I post the files would you be able to test? If it’s a Final Cut issue I want to know!
You should post the Inferno footage for others to test in Resolve and/or PP. If they don't see the same truncation of black info then issue is most likely in FCP. If they observe the same issue, then it's probably somewhere between the GH5s and Inferno. Also, could it be the LUT you are using?
Here's the clip from the video called "2.1 Ninja Inferno — 59.94 4:2:2 10-bit" -- that's the one to test. I've been told the LUT could be reducing the footage to Rec. 709 but I don't know that I buy that… am waiting for a response from Apple on that one. But if you can try this in Resolve, please do! https://www.dropbox.com/s/pszpqfvvnu4qzw7/2%2C1_NinjaInferno--5994_4%3B2%3B2_10-bit.mov?dl=0
Here's the clip from the video called "2.1 Ninja Inferno — 59.94 4:2:2 10-bit" -- that's the one to test. I've been told the LUT could be reducing the footage to Rec. 709 but I don't know that I buy that… am waiting for a response from Apple on that one. But if you can try this in Resolve, please do! https://www.dropbox.com/s/pszpqfvvnu4qzw7/2%2C1_NinjaInferno--5994_4%3B2%3B2_10-bit.mov?dl=0
Was about to ask for access to the clips to have a look
The Atomos Inferno can only display HDR if it’s hooked on an HDMI 2.0a compatible video card I presume
Straight from the computer you mean? Without the need for an additional box??
10 months after ...it seems you can get a USB-C to HDMI 2.0b converter (Belkin/Uptab) to transfer the rec 2020 signal out to an hdr monitor (Inferno; hdr TV)
Final cut is not set Setting up any HDR footage correctly. I am running into the exact same problem.
Plus on export to YouTube it is not sending out through HDR content.
My TV will display icon up in the right-hand corner when a true HDR video is displayed. I also get a setting under my video settings on the TV of vivid HDR.
It does seem though that adobe premiere is encoding correctly.
Plus on export to YouTube it is not sending out through HDR content.
My TV will display icon up in the right-hand corner when a true HDR video is displayed. I also get a setting under my video settings on the TV of vivid HDR.
It does seem though that adobe premiere is encoding correctly.
The only way to monitor HDR footage on a Mac (greater than 500nits) - you will need to use the rather expensive IO 4K from AJA, to go from Thunderbolt to HDMI.
Correct. I do have HDMI 2 cables and the Mac should be outputting the right signal. It’s VERY hard to get a clear answer though.
Just a guess: It looked like your project was set to ProRes 422 vs ProRes 422 HQ ... I think HQ adds in 10bit color.
Yeah that was one of the first things I looked up. ProRes is always 10-bit. Thanks though!
Nevermind, I looked it up .. both cover 10bit.
In part 3, we see the problem I've run into with the Atomos Ninja Inferno and the V-Log footage on an HDR timeline. Do YOU know what's wrong?!
PhotoJoseph I was referring to the gamma shift you mentioned between internal and atomos recording.Try this...before you apply the lut to the atomos file,match levels to the internal recording and then apply the lut..
Hmm, I’m not sure that’s it. First of all it’s 10-bit so 0-1024, and if the HDMI out was limited that’s pretty much negate the entire purpose of capturing externally. The file is fine until the LUT is applied. Someone else has told me the LUT is forcing it into Rec. 709 color space but that doesn’t seem right either.
PhotoJoseph it happens because of 16-235 and 0-255 levels..hdmi sends 16-235 but internally uses 0-255..at least in my atomos assassin ,there's no setting for input range..
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