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GH5S Low Light Part 3 ► WTF with V-Log footage on ATOMOS Ninja Inferno?

Photo Moment - February 23, 2018

In part 3, we see the problem I've run into with the Atomos Ninja Inferno and the V-Log footage on an HDR timeline. Do YOU know what's wrong?!

Products Mentioned In Today's Photo Moment

Fotga Variable ND Filters — Get Yours Here

Pixco Lens Adapters — Get Yours Here

Panasonic Lumix DC-GH5S — Get Yours Here

Atomos Ninja Inferno — Get Yours Here

Panasonic LUMIX Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 — Get Yours Here

Mitakon Zhongyi Speedmaster 25mm f/0.95 Lens — Get Yours Here

Panasonic LUMIX Leica 15mm f/1.7 — Get Yours Here

Videos Mentioned In Today's Photo Moment



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Comments from YouTube

Most Gh5 users don't edit on FC pro, I edit in Vegas pro 17.. Is there any info that will allow us to use all of this complex stuff on Vegas (in my case)? or other NLE for the rest of us please?
I don’t know where you’re getting your statistics, but FCPX is an extremely popular editor. If you’re editing ProRes footage in HDR, I’m afraid you’re going to have to upgrade from Vegas. Try Premiere or Resolve on a PC.
What I can't figure out is, the imported v-Log clips still say rec709 in the inspector. I'm having the same issues with a Ninja Inferno. Also, for the life of me, I cannot get the waveform to show hdr, it's locked at rec709, even with a wide gamut library and project. And agreed that the ninja footage looks almost like it baked in some kind of v-log lut internally. The footage is not nearly as flat as internal.
Ah, my usual meetup. I remember. I just decided to go this morning so haven’t planned anything yet. Stay tuned; I will and will announce on the show and all the usual socials.
@Sheldon Charron Thats exactly what I was finding out. I have the Fuji XT3 and on my Atomos Ninja V I set it to HDR ON / Fujifilm Flog F-Gamut and record. Imported in FCPX it still says Rec709.
1) Whats the correct setting in the Atomos Recorder? SONY HLG BT2020 when I have a Fujicamera or should it match with my camera?
2) "Color Profile Override": Whats the difference there between Rec 2020 / PG / HLG ? Is PG really the right thing to go?
@Not Profane Not sure about Fuji F-log but with V-LogL you use PG for full access to Gamut.HLG is a limited gamut of HDR
PhotoJoseph Im in the talks with Atomos in Germany! They are very helpful. On the Atomos Recorder you need to switch HLG on in the Monitoring what is meant to only be a preview in order to really save the file on your SSD as a Rec2020 file instead of a REc709. then it seems to be recorded and displayed as rec2020 in FCPX! Did you find a solution how to grade that?
That’s super interesting. I have not, but I stopped looking a long time ago. At NAB I was looking for a cheaper option but came up empty. Super frustrating.
Have You found a solution?
No. I gave up.
@PhotoJoseph I wanted to ask why You think that gh5 is better than S1 from video?
Shutter angle w/ 1d adjustments. Waveform monitor. PAL + NTSC. True VFR. Light enough to handhold on a gimbal for extended periods. Those are the top things that come to mind. There are places where S1 will perform better, no doubt. But overall, I’ll take the GH5 or GH5S.
@PhotoJoseph I have gh5 and gh5s, so I am considering buying S1 :) I think that together they will create the perfect trio. I really like Your movies. I learned a lot from them.
That’s awesome to hear, thanks!
Hello Joseph, I wonder if is possible to film 120 fps and keeping 4K with the atmos inferno?
No. 4k60 is the max output
Did you ever figure out this issue? Is the conversion LUT a Rec 709 LUT? Maybe it's not meant to be utilized in a HDR color space. Also, you could grade without the conversion LUT and just expand your contrast, saturation and color manually. Anyway, I enjoyed this mini series. I just recently picked up a GH5s and am scouring the Tubes for helpful content
Never did. Honestly I kind of gave up
OMG. LUTs are not made for Colorgrading! On Youtube are so much people thinking they are PROS, because they make youtube video! LUTs are made for DemoView on Filmset. How to Colorgrading LOG? Convert the Gamut and Gamma! FPX Amateur Software can not! Use Davinci! Make real Color management! LUTs are SHIT and only for hobbie!
Has this been fixed with the new Firmware?
Do you still recommend the Inferno, or should I wait for the new NinjaV? I am using Premiere.
Which custom lut you use? The official of Panasonic website?
Im using the one that’s built into Final Cut
I have a similar problem when I shoot in 3840 x 2160 V-Log at 59.94 fps with my GH5 and record with my Ninja Inferno in ProRes422HQ. The Rec 709 version is fine color correcting in FCPX 10.4. When I change the library and project to wide gamut Rec 2020 PQ, the highlights are cut off on the waveform monitor at about 60 nits though the shadows are not cut off.
Ok… are you adding a primary LUT to your footage? By Primary I mean through the Inspector, not as an adjustment. And if so, which one and where did you get it… was it just there already (i.e. installed by default by Final Cut) or did you install it?
Yes I applied the Panasonic V-Log LUT in the inspector using Final Cut's built-in LUT not one I downloaded.

I just found out if I remove all effects from the footage, then the highlights are no longer cut off at 60 nits. So in the future it looks like when I color correct my project for HDR after I do a Rec 709 pass, I need to remove all effects from the footage first so the highlights are not cut off in the waveform monitor.
That makes sense, but wouldn’t you start with HDR and then do a Rec709 pass?
PhotoJoseph I always do a rec 709 version first because that's the product I need to upload to my YouTube channel ASAP so my teammates can watch it. I've only been experimenting with doing an HDR version recently using a non-HDR monitor, the 27" 5K display on my 2017 iMac. I don't know if it's even feasible to successfully color correct and output an HDR version without an HDR monitor but I'm trying uploading short clips to YouTube and watching the results on my LG OLED65B7 that is an HDR display.
I would say its an FCPx problem. I have tried using the inbuilt LUTS with my (now sold) canon C100. Basically the same result you are getting. If you use a custom Lut then its OK. This suggests its the inbuilt LUTS
I have not had this issue with Atomos. I've shot on my GH5s in vlog with my Ninja Inferno with no issues like this. I also shoot in 24fps. Maybe your problem is related to shooting in 59.94? I don't know. But, I've never had clamping shadow issues using the GH5 or GH5s with my Ninja Inferno. I have not heard any issues from anyone else who has shot vlog with the GH5 and Inferno. You can search YouTube and find tons of videos of people shooting with the GH5s with no mention of the issue you're having. I hope you solve it.
Thanks. Still trying to get to the bottom of this. Are you editing in FCPX in HDR mode?
I’m having the same issue Canon C300 Mark 11 and shogun Inferno
With Davinci Resolve that would not have happened ;-)
Ok.. done. Looks fine! Here without lut in the grade: and here with aktive lut: What do you think?
PhotoJoseph What do you think?
The post had ended up in "held for review" because of the links so I didn't see it until now. Just approved and reviewing!
It looks like it's clipping the bottom, isn't it? With the LUT? I should have given you the blacksmith clip. Let me see if I can move that into dropbox from home.
Oh wait I don't have to send another file. Can you scrub past the "slate" to where you see the curtain in full focus and do your screenshots again? Here's screenshots of Final Cut Pro X 10.4 so you can see what I'm seeing… again to be sure we're on the same page, I've created an HDR library and the project is set to Rec 2020. Here's with no LUT applied where you can clearly see there is detail from the darkest shadow to brightest highlight with no clipping in the source, and here's with the generic Panasonic V-Log LUT that comes with FCPX — with the LUT applied, we see the shadows completely clamped off (and yes the highlights appear because the screenshot is from an SDR screen, however we can see in the waveform that the highlights are intact).
You should post the Inferno footage for others to test in Resolve and/or PP. If they don't see the same truncation of black info then issue is most likely in FCP. If they observe the same issue, then it's probably somewhere between the GH5s and Inferno. Also, could it be the LUT you are using?
Was about to ask for access to the clips to have a look
Here's the clip from the video called "2.1 Ninja Inferno — 59.94 4:2:2 10-bit" -- that's the one to test. I've been told the LUT could be reducing the footage to Rec. 709 but I don't know that I buy that… am waiting for a response from Apple on that one. But if you can try this in Resolve, please do!
Here's the clip from the video called "2.1 Ninja Inferno — 59.94 4:2:2 10-bit" -- that's the one to test. I've been told the LUT could be reducing the footage to Rec. 709 but I don't know that I buy that… am waiting for a response from Apple on that one. But if you can try this in Resolve, please do!
The Atomos Inferno can only display HDR if it’s hooked on an HDMI 2.0a compatible video card I presume
Final cut is not set Setting up any HDR footage correctly. I am running into the exact same problem.
Plus on export to YouTube it is not sending out through HDR content.
My TV will display icon up in the right-hand corner when a true HDR video is displayed. I also get a setting under my video settings on the TV of vivid HDR.
It does seem though that adobe premiere is encoding correctly.
10 months after seems you can get a USB-C to HDMI 2.0b converter (Belkin/Uptab) to transfer the rec 2020 signal out to an hdr monitor (Inferno; hdr TV)
Straight from the computer you mean? Without the need for an additional box??
@Teddy Digital Media Thanks, I've just seen this comment (links get held for review, sorry). I read your article and see that this works for HDR playback of movies; have you tried connecting it to a laptop and playing HDR content from Final Cut Pro X through it? Somehow I think this is just about playback of encoded content, not about playing off the timeline, given the price (the AJA IO costs over $2k to do this).
Just a guess: It looked like your project was set to ProRes 422 vs ProRes 422 HQ ... I think HQ adds in 10bit color.
Nevermind, I looked it up .. both cover 10bit.
Yeah that was one of the first things I looked up. ProRes is always 10-bit. Thanks though!
In part 3, we see the problem I've run into with the Atomos Ninja Inferno and the V-Log footage on an HDR timeline. Do YOU know what's wrong?!
PhotoJoseph it happens because of 16-235 and 0-255 levels..hdmi sends 16-235 but internally uses least in my atomos assassin ,there's no setting for input range..
Hmm, I’m not sure that’s it. First of all it’s 10-bit so 0-1024, and if the HDMI out was limited that’s pretty much negate the entire purpose of capturing externally. The file is fine until the LUT is applied. Someone else has told me the LUT is forcing it into Rec. 709 color space but that doesn’t seem right either.
PhotoJoseph I was referring to the gamma shift you mentioned between internal and atomos recording.Try this...before you apply the lut to the atomos file,match levels to the internal recording and then apply the lut..
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